As batteries are still a limited resource, having battery swap stations seems like a waste. They must maintain an inventory of batteries, each of which means one fewer electric vehicle on the road.
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Battery Change-out Stations— why wouldn’t this work?
- Thread starter troubledcure
- Start date
There's definitely room for improvement in that department. I recall reading a post about a Model 3 battery replacement having 11 hours of labor. Seems like it could be dropped and replaced in under an hour... maybe even by machine entirely without human labor.
Also, some clever electrical engineer will work out how to replace individual modules or even bypass failed cells. Replacing an entire battery pack because of 1 cell needs to become a thing of the past.
shahryaran
Member
smogne41
Active Member
Only the 4680 packs are 'structural', but the other 3/Y packs are not trivial to remove either.
TunaBug
Member
Perhaps of thinking of why our current cars don't work for battery swapping, instead think of the requirements to make it work, work backwards from there. Then ask if that makes sense.
I think a lot of the arguments here could be summarized as "it's a bad idea because the cars we have now are not designed for it". For example, purging all air from the cooling lines, structural packs, etc. Those are solvable engineering problems: if the industry had set out 20 years ago with battery swapping as a requirement then the cooling systems would not care about a few bubbles, the packs wouldn't be structural, etc. In other words, I don't think these are reasons why battery swapping is fundamentally a bad idea. Just reasons why battery swapping is a bad idea for the car I own today.
Tesla tried it: to be clear, they ran an experiment about battery swapping on Model S cars that were already on the road. I have no idea how much design of those cars was intended to actually enable/facilitate the swap. Perhaps nothing?
People wanting extra care of their battery: I think that's also related to the current situation and not fundamental. In an alternate universe where you didn't own the battery and you knew you would be swapping it in a couple of days anyhow then in that alternate universe we wouldn't give a damn about micro-optimizing the life of the batteries. We would only care about how long it would take the local service station to swap the battery. I guess what I am describing is a hybrid of above: instead of "not owning the car", I'm suggesting you own the car but not the battery.
Extra inventory: yeah that's a thing. Having battery swapping stations as ubiquitous as gas stations, each with 20-30 batteries in the back being charged...lots of inventory. Lots of fire insurance. Etc.
I'll add one of my own: we would have more of a need to standardize the batteries. After 100 years the auto industry still cannot come up with a single oil filter that fits every car. At least oil filters are small and cheap enough that your local NAPA can stock a couple of each. Try that for something as large and expensive as a car battery. Imagine that mess. And yet we'd still complain once the EU saw fit to mandate a single battery.
I think a lot of the arguments here could be summarized as "it's a bad idea because the cars we have now are not designed for it". For example, purging all air from the cooling lines, structural packs, etc. Those are solvable engineering problems: if the industry had set out 20 years ago with battery swapping as a requirement then the cooling systems would not care about a few bubbles, the packs wouldn't be structural, etc. In other words, I don't think these are reasons why battery swapping is fundamentally a bad idea. Just reasons why battery swapping is a bad idea for the car I own today.
Tesla tried it: to be clear, they ran an experiment about battery swapping on Model S cars that were already on the road. I have no idea how much design of those cars was intended to actually enable/facilitate the swap. Perhaps nothing?
People wanting extra care of their battery: I think that's also related to the current situation and not fundamental. In an alternate universe where you didn't own the battery and you knew you would be swapping it in a couple of days anyhow then in that alternate universe we wouldn't give a damn about micro-optimizing the life of the batteries. We would only care about how long it would take the local service station to swap the battery. I guess what I am describing is a hybrid of above: instead of "not owning the car", I'm suggesting you own the car but not the battery.
Extra inventory: yeah that's a thing. Having battery swapping stations as ubiquitous as gas stations, each with 20-30 batteries in the back being charged...lots of inventory. Lots of fire insurance. Etc.
I'll add one of my own: we would have more of a need to standardize the batteries. After 100 years the auto industry still cannot come up with a single oil filter that fits every car. At least oil filters are small and cheap enough that your local NAPA can stock a couple of each. Try that for something as large and expensive as a car battery. Imagine that mess. And yet we'd still complain once the EU saw fit to mandate a single battery.
TunaBug
Member
I'll try to take my own advice...
In my mind, a battery swapping station would like like a hybrid of a gas station and jiffy lube. You drive in, park over a pit, stay in the car. Hydraulics in the pit grab the current battery. Quick disconnects release (electrical, cooling, and most importantly just mechanical restraints to keep it from falling out when you hit a pothole). Lower the battery and shove it off to the side (where it plugs into a bank of chargers). Then the freshly charged battery rolls down, the arms lift it into place, the quick-disconnects engage, and I drive off.
ETA: I expect that whole process to take a similar amount of time as I spend at a gas pump. Let's say no more than 5 minutes, including the time to pull into position and drive off.
I can see problems with that already, mostly around capital expense and stocking batteries, but I'll let the peanut gallery have fun.
Tesla set up the swapping station at Harris Ranch and did the night time event to demonstrate the swap potential SPECIFICALLY because they could get more clean air credits from the State of California. Once the rules were tightened up a bit to eliminate the additional credits, then Tesla went in a different direction and shut down the battery swapping station (as you would expect them to do)...
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Probably not, but perhaps that's less of a concern for me having lived through Tesla cutting my range from 256 miles to 232 miles through a software update.
The idea that the OP proposed would be that you would not own the battery; perhaps Tesla or a 3rd party would and hopefully provide some standards on battery health evaluations and maintenance. You would swap out the pack when you feel the need to and pay for the energy that you used. I think the idea could mean that the average EV owner could make greater use out of smaller battery packs and the production and cost of the EV would be lower since the battery (or usage of the battery) would be separate.
I like the idea and think it sounds much more practical for drivers in a loop, but would be logistical nightmare for routes that don't see much traffic. Of course this could be remedied by arranging for plans in advance like a reservation system, but that's another level of complications.
And, they even had Harris Ranch is getting first battery swap station. And, it closed in late 2016: Tesla Battery Swap Location Shut Down For Now.
E90alex
Active Member
It was a farce and only a means to gain extra ZEV credits from CARB.
Indeed. I do recall chatter about it being used to possibly receive additional ZEV credits per vehicle (as outlined at Why did Toyota build Rav4 EV? Why hydrogen after 2014 ? - Toyota Rav4 EV Forum) for "fast refueling".
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