Battery Care & Maintenance

[rlang59]

EDIT: I think I'm just about to throw out a big Quagmire into the Battery Version Discussion @_@

EDIT AGAIN: Was just told in the Revision A thread that part numbers are different for the 60 packs. So even though mine says A, has nothing to do with the 85 packs limitations on the A's. I did get one of the first 60kW cars though. so mines fairly early in terms of 60's. I got mine in May.

I replied to your post in the other thread but I'll reply here too. The part number for the 60's is different so you can't compare revs.

 

[glhs272]

Sorry, didn't mean to drag this thread into that topic of 90kw supercharger limitations on rev A 85 packs. But my thought is that kman is running his 60 pretty much to it's maximum. Meaning large depth of charge. Even on the earliest 60 (rev A), these packs are holding there own. This is one of the reasons why I think I can get 200,000+ miles out this car.

 

[johnnyS]

I read all the information about taking care of my model S and battery care. It sounds sensible, but I keep wondering why there is no official information from Tesla. As far as I am aware, Tesla has not said anything about balancing. This is surprising when many are complaining about degradation of their battery. I will probably keep reading with interest, but until I hear something from Tesla recommending that we should do something every 5000 miles to keep our packs balanced, I think I will wait and see. There was a guy posting a couple of days ago that he range charges every day and has maximum rated range.

 

[brianman]

Y'all might want to wander over to the Roadster section of this forum. Lots of good information regarding battery care, which includes this and more. People seem to forget that Tesla put out a car before the Model S and there is a lot of data already available.

I heard you had to take the battery out every night and give it a nice warm bath with some candles in the Roadster era. Really finicky vehicles back then. It was amazing what they put up with back when they charged cars by treadmill. But we Model S owners thank them graciously and truly appreciate what they endured on the path to keeping Tesla afloat.

 

[NigelM]

I heard you had to take the battery out every night and give it a nice warm bath with some candles in the Roadster era. Really finicky vehicles back then. It was amazing what they put up with back when they charged cars by treadmill. But we Model S owners thank them graciously and truly appreciate what they endured on the path to keeping Tesla afloat.

Amusing, but really not true. Taking care of my Roadster (battery included!) has been anything but "finicky" and I haven't "endured" anything except for excessive smiling.

 

[bonnie]

I heard you had to take the battery out every night and give it a nice warm bath with some candles in the Roadster era. Really finicky vehicles back then. It was amazing what they put up with back when they charged cars by treadmill. But we Model S owners thank them graciously and truly appreciate what they endured on the path to keeping Tesla afloat.

Amusing, but really not true. Taking care of my Roadster (battery included!) has been anything but "finicky" and I haven't "endured" anything except for excessive smiling.

Actually the battery care has been exactly like what is directed for the Model S . Go figure.

 

[NigelM]

Mod Note: thread title amended to reflect that it is a general discussion (although thank you islandbayy for starting it).

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Well, I'm not doing a range charge a month (only when I need it) but the first trip I took to Chattanooga, TN I did a range charge at home and on a level 2 charger there for the ride back. First range charge was 255 rated (85kW with 8k miles) and the second for the trip home was 257. Both were range charges where it actually completed, and had finished balancing. I was pretty disappointed by those numbers considering I'm seeing others post with 260+ on a range charge with many more miles. My daily commute is around 90 miles, and I was typically charging to 80% during the summer and now 90% during the winter. I've never let it sit at 100% more than an hour or two and never drained it to 0. Closest I've gotten is around 30 rated miles left. To me I'm a definitely a little above average with what I've seen others write about degradation. However, I feel that this isn't because I'm not following the guidelines you outlined (because I am) it probably more has to do with luck (like Bonnie says)- by luck I mean you just got a slightly better set of cells than most... Additionally, you live in a VERY cold area, I'm in the south... and that plays a part too.. I'll see a lot more days that are warmer than you do, and out of those summer days, we will average a lot greater "highs" during the hottest parts of the day. I guess what I'm saying is, even if everyone followed this mantra, (like Bonnie said) we'd still all get different results... possibly because of varying degrees of quality in the components, but also because of climate and the area we live in. This YMMV factor is why I think Tesla stays pretty mum on the issue... because (like a lot of questions with the Model S) your answer will be... .well, "it depends"... Either way, thanks for all your efforts on putting these helpful videos together.

 

[qphan79]

I have a 60kwh with over 30k miles on it. I just did a full range charge last night after taking it down to zero miles (though the battery bar indicator looked like it had enough juice to go for quite a bit further). Max charge this morning was 191 miles. I've only done maybe 2 max charges in the past 11 months of owning the car. So do I have to keep max range charging in order to balance the battery pack and improve my range? How many more max charges do I need? Thanks!

 

[FredTMC]

I have a 60kwh with over 30k miles on it. I just did a full range charge last night after taking it down to zero miles (though the battery bar indicator looked like it had enough juice to go for quite a bit further). Max charge this morning was 191 miles. I've only done maybe 2 max charges in the past 11 months of owning the car. So do I have to keep max range charging in order to balance the battery pack and improve my range? How many more max charges do I need? Thanks!

islandbayy suggested that it may require multiple range charges. Sounds like you've only done 3 in 30k

Question: Did you trickle charge to 100%? It's been suggested that you should use low current to top off the battery. This enables "more complete battery" balancing to occur.

Question: What was the rated range right after charging completed? Did you let it sit till morning after completion? You may have some vampire loss by morning.

 

[islandbayy]

I have a 60kwh with over 30k miles on it. I just did a full range charge last night after taking it down to zero miles (though the battery bar indicator looked like it had enough juice to go for quite a bit further). Max charge this morning was 191 miles. I've only done maybe 2 max charges in the past 11 months of owning the car. So do I have to keep max range charging in order to balance the battery pack and improve my range? How many more max charges do I need? Thanks!

Where are you located? That looks more like effects of cold temps then out of balance. And if you have only done a range charge 2 or 3 times in 30k, it might take 3-5 to get it closer to balance and let the car recalculate capacity.

So where are you located, and what is the current temps? and is your car parked in a garage or outside. If garage, heated or no.

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Well, I'm not doing a range charge a month (only when I need it) but the first trip I took to Chattanooga, TN I did a range charge at home and on a level 2 charger there for the ride back. First range charge was 255 rated (85kW with 8k miles) and the second for the trip home was 257. Both were range charges where it actually completed, and had finished balancing. I was pretty disappointed by those numbers considering I'm seeing others post with 260+ on a range charge with many more miles. My daily commute is around 90 miles, and I was typically charging to 80% during the summer and now 90% during the winter. I've never let it sit at 100% more than an hour or two and never drained it to 0. Closest I've gotten is around 30 rated miles left. To me I'm a definitely a little above average with what I've seen others write about degradation. However, I feel that this isn't because I'm not following the guidelines you outlined (because I am) it probably more has to do with luck (like Bonnie says)- by luck I mean you just got a slightly better set of cells than most... Additionally, you live in a VERY cold area, I'm in the south... and that plays a part too.. I'll see a lot more days that are warmer than you do, and out of those summer days, we will average a lot greater "highs" during the hottest parts of the day. I guess what I'm saying is, even if everyone followed this mantra, (like Bonnie said) we'd still all get different results... possibly because of varying degrees of quality in the components, but also because of climate and the area we live in. This YMMV factor is why I think Tesla stays pretty mum on the issue... because (like a lot of questions with the Model S) your answer will be... .well, "it depends"... Either way, thanks for all your efforts on putting these helpful videos together.

You've only done 2 range charges, and, both times you saw a mileage increase. What were the outside temps where you did the range charges, and how many hours after it was complete before you checked your range?

 

[qphan79]

I charged at 30 amps using NEMA 14-50. Ii it charge to 100% and it continued to charge at about 5 volts for about 30 min. After about 30 min it said "charge complete" and I had a total of 191 miles. I understand that I need to do more max charges, I had previously avoided doing so because we were warned by Tesla to only max charge when needed. After max charging, I went out for a few miles to take it down from 100%. I noticed that after driving only about 1-2 miles that my battery bar indicator was already down a few %, which I thought was a bit odd. Anyway, is it safe to do another max charge even at about 95% charge and let it balance again? Or is it better to run the battery down more? If the balancing only occurs at 100% then could I not do it multiple times in a day as long as I don't keep the battery at 100% for too long?

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I live in Southern California and the car is parked in a garage. Mildest winter out here in a long time, lows of 50F usually.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I also had another thought- comparing range loss with just mileage as the main factor might be a little short sided. In addition to climate, there's driving style (and performance ability).. The P85 will pull more from the pack when driving aggressively than the S85, and that could lead to more stress on the pack adding to degradation over time. Following this same logic, riding on 21's will force someone to do deeper charges than someone with 19's... even if they drive the same route daily.

 

[jerry33]

Anyway, is it safe to do another max charge even at about 95% charge and let it balance again? Or is it better to run the battery down more? If the balancing only occurs at 100% then could I not do it multiple times in a day as long as I don't keep the battery at 100% for too long?

I just do a range charge when I need the range, and don't worry about it otherwise. The pack balances a bit anyway, just not as much or as quickly as when you do a range charge. Doing a range charge from 95% probably comes too close to leaving it fully charged.

 

[qphan79]

I also had another thought- comparing range loss with just mileage as the main factor might be a little short sided. In addition to climate, there's driving style (and performance ability).. The P85 will pull more from the pack when driving aggressively than the S85, and that could lead to more stress on the pack adding to degradation over time. Following this same logic, riding on 21's will force someone to do deeper charges than someone with 19's... even if they drive the same route daily.

Driving style seems to have no effect. I do mostly highway miles and have an average kwh usage of 289 lifetime.

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I just do a range charge when I need the range, and don't worry about it otherwise. The pack balances a bit anyway, just not as much or as quickly as when you do a range charge. Doing a range charge from 95% probably comes too close to leaving it fully charged.

Sure, that's along the recommendations provided by Tesla. But why have I lost about 15 miles in total range compared to Islandbayy who has done more than 80 max charges as well as taken his battery to near zero repeatedly? Is it just really bad luck withy battery pack?

 

[SeminoleFSU]

You've only done 2 range charges, and, both times you saw a mileage increase. What were the outside temps where you did the range charges, and how many hours after it was complete before you checked your range?

I figured you'd bring up the only 2 range charges I bought a service loaner that had 5k+ miles on it, I've put almost another 5k on it since then.. so yea, just one road trip and two range charges total. I haven't needed the extra range yet, so I'm trying not to do range charges unless I actually need them. To answer your question, both range charges it probably sat 1-2hrs after they finished. I think the first range charge it probably sat longer than the 2nd.... meaning, it could've displayed 257 on that first go 'round, but it sat for a bit and might've lost a little in my garage. I'm hoping to do another road trip soon and I'm looking forward to seeing where my next range charge ends up.. Right now charging to 90% I get between 224 and 225, which usually seems to be a function of how long it sits before I get in to drive it.
------ EDIT: outside temps - first charge was in my garage so it was probably 50 degrees. 2nd charge on the level 2 for the trip home was in the open at Lookout Mountain, TN. It probably got to a low of 20 degrees that night, and was around 32 when I got in to drive.

 

[islandbayy]

I figured you'd bring up the only 2 range charges I bought a service loaner that had 5k+ miles on it, I've put almost another 5k on it since then.. so yea, just one road trip and two range charges total. I haven't needed the extra range yet, so I'm trying not to do range charges unless I actually need them. To answer your question, both range charges it probably sat 1-2hrs after they finished. I think the first range charge it probably sat longer than the 2nd.... meaning, it could've displayed 257 on that first go 'round, but it sat for a bit and might've lost a little in my garage. I'm hoping to do another road trip soon and I'm looking forward to seeing where my next range charge ends up.. Right now charging to 90% I get between 224 and 225, which usually seems to be a function of how long it sits before I get in to drive it.
------ EDIT: outside temps - first charge was in my garage so it was probably 50 degrees. 2nd charge on the level 2 for the trip home was in the open at Lookout Mountain, TN. It probably got to a low of 20 degrees that night, and was around 32 when I got in to drive.

I only have a few minutes right now, so I cant respond to everyone at this moment, I will though this afternoon.

As for you, Temps had a large impact, especially on that second go at 20 degrees. Give example, it was 20 degrees and snowing last night. My car is parked outside. Charged to 90% as I usually do, and my rated range was 162miles. Now, doing a 90% charge at 50 degrees, or on a warm battery pack, it would have been about 180, in the 70+ degrees it would have been around my normal 189 for a 90% charge. So temps play a insane roll. I am digging up some lithium temperature capacity charts I will post later.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

I only have a few minutes right now, so I cant respond to everyone at this moment, I will though this afternoon.

As for you, Temps had a large impact, especially on that second go at 20 degrees. Give example, it was 20 degrees and snowing last night. My car is parked outside. Charged to 90% as I usually do, and my rated range was 162miles. Now, doing a 90% charge at 50 degrees, or on a warm battery pack, it would have been about 180, in the 70+ degrees it would have been around my normal 189 for a 90% charge. So temps play a insane roll. I am digging up some lithium temperature capacity charts I will post later.

I see what you're saying, that the 2nd range charge could've displayed a good bit higher range # if the batt wasn't quite as cold soaked. Hmm... my numbers have always seemed the same no matter what the temps are where I'm charging... But that could mostly be because I charge in my enclosed (but unheated) garage... Less temp fluctuations maybe? That still seem strange to me because there are many mornings where I've left for work and the regen bar was at max limit and get the usual "your performance will improve battery heater yada yada" but my rated range #'s always seems the same... maybe it has to be well below freezing before it starts to affect the displayed range # on the dash?

 

[islandbayy]

I see what you're saying, that the 2nd range charge could've displayed a good bit higher range # if the batt wasn't quite as cold soaked. Hmm... my numbers have always seemed the same no matter what the temps are where I'm charging... But that could mostly be because I charge in my enclosed (but unheated) garage... Less temp fluctuations maybe? That still seem strange to me because there are many mornings where I've left for work and the regen bar was at max limit and get the usual "your performance will improve battery heater yada yada" but my rated range #'s always seems the same... maybe it has to be well below freezing before it starts to affect the displayed range # on the dash?

A Cold battery cannot put out as much power as a warm battery. Give you another example, this morning, that 162 miles. I started pre-heating my car, which also warms the battery pack to a certain degree. By the time I got in my car, that 162 miles went up to 173. a gain of 11 miles just by preheating. And even then, it was not done heating the battery when I left home. Regen was only at about 15kw, so it could have went longer.

Yes, it is proven that temperatures affect capacity, both tesla has confirmed this with me, as well as my own Knowledge of Lithium and Lead batteries. I'm still looking for the temp capacity chart. I do remember, when I was at the Highland Park service and sales center supercharging last friday, I was playing with the touch screen for configuration and purchase information. The touch screen now compensates for temps when showing range, it has something like freezing, 70's, and 100+

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I charged at 30 amps using NEMA 14-50. Ii it charge to 100% and it continued to charge at about 5 volts for about 30 min. After about 30 min it said "charge complete" and I had a total of 191 miles. I understand that I need to do more max charges, I had previously avoided doing so because we were warned by Tesla to only max charge when needed. After max charging, I went out for a few miles to take it down from 100%. I noticed that after driving only about 1-2 miles that my battery bar indicator was already down a few %, which I thought was a bit odd. Anyway, is it safe to do another max charge even at about 95% charge and let it balance again? Or is it better to run the battery down more? If the balancing only occurs at 100% then could I not do it multiple times in a day as long as I don't keep the battery at 100% for too long?

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I live in Southern California and the car is parked in a garage. Mildest winter out here in a long time, lows of 50F usually.

Hmm, thats a bit high for the effects of lower temps, but it is borderline. Charge again at the full 40 amps right after a nice brisk drive so the packs hot. dont leave it above 90%. Do it again when your plannig to drive right after it completes. Never mentioned how many miles are on your car.

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Driving style seems to have no effect. I do mostly highway miles and have an average kwh usage of 289 lifetime.

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Sure, that's along the recommendations provided by Tesla. But why have I lost about 15 miles in total range compared to Islandbayy who has done more than 80 max charges as well as taken his battery to near zero repeatedly? Is it just really bad luck withy battery pack?

I agree, driving style has no effect. Reguardless, Rated range seems to be calculated at either 290 or 300 watts/mile.

I think I'm averaging around 340w/mile right now, I was around 290 during the summer. Temps for one, and not doing very many 100% charges overall. Just take it easy, even if you dont need to do a 100% charge, every once in a while do it, but just make sure you will use up enough to bring it below 90% within a reasonable time.

 

[bareyb]

How often should one do a 100% charge to balance the battery?