AWD vs RWD vs FWD

[kort677]

I have owned both a rwd and a awd drive tesla and I prefer the "feel" of the awd over the rwd car. the awd car just feels more "planted" to the road than my rwd car did.

 

[doubeld]

I hope AWD is less than $5kUSD for a $35K base model sedan. I haven't looked at many competitors, but the difference between the 2016 BMW 340i and 340i xDrive is $2600CAD.

I do a lot of winter driving and only having your primary braking (regen) on your rear tires does not sound like a great idea. (No, I'm not going to flip through the menus to turn regen off if all of a sudden its warranted during sketchy conditions - let alone trying to instruct my wife or anyone else that happens to be driving my car at the time how to do so). I'll go with AWD primarily for more even braking distribution. Having the added traction to get through sloppy conditions is secondary. Mileage and power is tertiary.
I've driven 5 speed FWD cars all my life and didn't think I would ever need AWD, but if it's <$3500 USD, it would be a no-brainer.
I wonder what the actual cost of the extra motor and power electronics would be.

 

[nwdiver]

I hope AWD is less than $5kUSD for a $35K base model sedan. I haven't looked at many competitors, but the difference between the 2016 BMW 340i and 340i xDrive is $2600CAD.

It might be a bit less since Tesla will be making more drive units but keep in mind that Tesla accomplishes AWD by adding a 2nd drive motor/inverter and gearbox. Getting the cost of an entire drive unit down to $4k would be a major accomplishment.

... and the brake pedal still engages all 4 wheels....

 

[tenstringer009]

I hope AWD is less than $5kUSD for a $35K base model sedan. I haven't looked at many competitors, but the difference between the 2016 BMW 340i and 340i xDrive is $2600CAD.

Agree 100%. Looking at BMW/Audi/MB, the price premium for AWD is ~$2k USD on their base model. If Tesla made that the price difference I might would choose AWD, but it'd actually depend more for me on the difference in frunk cargo space (if it goes from being reasonably sized to non-existent, I'd probably pass. I'd probably use the cargo capacity more often than AWD as a result of living in the Bay Area).

 

[doubeld]

It might be a bit less since Tesla will be making more drive units but keep in mind that Tesla accomplishes AWD by adding a 2nd drive motor/inverter and gearbox. Getting the cost of an entire drive unit down to $4k would be a major accomplishment.

... and the brake pedal still engages all 4 wheels....

I agree. Adding a second gearbox and the necessary power electronics is possibly a bit trickier/costlier than just adding a differential, but the $5000USD for the AWD model just sounds like convenient rounding. Those that are buying a $100k car can afford a rounding at the $1000 amount, those that are buying a $35-40k car cannot.

Let me re-phrase my braking comment. Most of your braking is done using regen. On a RWD Model S, that is ONLY on your rear wheels. Therefore, the first bit of slowing down on a RWD car will not engage the front brakes, therefore possibly leading to a fishtail scenario in icy conditions.

 

[ratsbew]

FWD is still superior in snow for an EV. It isn't about weight distribution, it's about the powered wheels being able to claw their way through 6 inches of snow and also having power to the steering wheels. On ice...FWD and good RWD with a 50/50 weight distribution should be the same from a traction/acceleration standpoint, but deep snow is another beast.

 

[omarsultan]

FWD is preferable to RWD in snowy weather. Not for everyone, but for most people most of the time. It's not weight distribution. It's because understeer is easier for most people to control. Also steerable drive wheels provide the ability to vector thrust in the direction you want to go.

In an ICE, sure, because the engine weight is over the drive wheels, but not the case with the Model 3 (or any BEV), where the pack provides more balanced weight distribution. Even with the FWD thrust vectoring, that might work with a 4-cyl ICE, but with a torquey motor, not sure its going to give you the desired behavior--instead I would thing you will ping pong between wheel spin and the traction control kicking in.

 

[Breezy]

A FWD EV is still going to have weight over the front wheels because the motor/inverter/gearbox/differential is there.

My 2013 Volt has a fair amount of torque: 273 lb-ft going through a 7:1 gear reduction. The traction control and torque management programming works very well and it behaves the same as any other FWD car.

 

[favo]

I chose AWD, since I'm planning to go for a PxxD Model 3. I think the $5K price mentioned may be a bit high. That is what it goes for on the Model S. Since they seem to be targeting roughly half the price of Model S for the base price, I will blithely assume it is similar for options. My guess is $3K for dual motor and another $10K for performance.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Personally I don't really care if it is RWD or FWD (I have no need for AWD, so I will not be opting for it), but I think RWD will sell better for a premium car.

I think the heavy preference for FWD in snow goes out the window with EVs. Not only is weight distribution far better than in an ICE, modern traction/stability control (with EVs taking it to the next level) eliminates worries about oversteer. I have not seen any complaints about the RWD Model S in the snow, so I expect the Model 3 will be similarly good. The tires matter far more than the drive wheels.

 

[S3XY]

I chose AWD, since I'm planning to go for a PxxD Model 3. I think the $5K price mentioned may be a bit high. That is what it goes for on the Model S. Since they seem to be targeting roughly half the price of Model S for the base price, I will blithely assume it is similar for options. My guess is $3K for dual motor and another $10K for performance.

The Model 3 will be half the cost of the Model S but I doubt the options will be. I think the best we could hope for is a D for an additional $4500.

 

[favo]

The Model 3 will be half the cost of the Model S but I doubt the options will be. I think the best we could hope for is a D for an additional $4500.

I'm assuming the standard dual-motor config will have two of the same motor. They will be making a lot of these motors. I also think the margin will be lower than the S on most, if not all, of the options. They might very will be making 50% profit on the current D upgrade. It just seems unlikely that they can't/won't reduce the price by a non-trivial amount from the Model S price. Can't see it going over $4K, but I guess we'll just have to wait patiently (yeah, right) to see.

 

[Olle]

I voted AWD, from a dream car point of view. Depending on price of AWD option, I might vote RWD once I actually buy the car .

FWD is IMO totally impossible if the M3 has anywhere near the torque to mass ratio of the Model S.

FWD made sense in low torque front heavy ICE cars, especially before the age of electronic stability control. They were space efficient and as many pointed out, cheaper to make due to the lack of external diff housing and transfer shaft. An FWD EV would probably be marginally more expensive then an RWD EV since you need better CV joints for the steered wheels. And you wouldn't gain any interior space or traction.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...AWD only matters when you are trying to accelerate and are traction limited, such as when you have a ridiculous amount of power like the P90D, or when its snowy. Course it doesn't help you stop or turn any better in the snow, so is benefits in the snow are way overblown.

Yes, AWD does help a lot when the car is traction limited, since each wheel can provide a little bit of traction without slipping. But this is also true in cornering, so turning is improved in slick conditions with AWD. You are correct that AWD doesn't help with stopping except that regen slowing is improved if all four wheels are helping, which is different from ICE AWD and braking.


For me, AWD would mean that I can get up my steep, curved driveway in slick conditions without chains. AWD is a big help going up hills or around curves in icy or deep snow conditions. I realize that this isn't something that many folks have to deal with.

 

[stopcrazypp]

FWD is IMO totally impossible if the M3 has anywhere near the torque to mass ratio of the Model S.

FWD made sense in low torque front heavy ICE cars, especially before the age of electronic stability control. They were space efficient and as many pointed out, cheaper to make due to the lack of external diff housing and transfer shaft. An FWD EV would probably be marginally more expensive then an RWD EV since you need better CV joints for the steered wheels. And you wouldn't gain any interior space or traction.

Good point on the torque steer. I forgot about that. Some of the high performance FWD (like the Mazdaspeed3, Focus ST) use electronic aids to address this (Mazdaspeed3 with engine throttling, Focus ST with power steering adjustments) or some more expensive suspension (like revoknuckle in Focus RS). Much simpler to just go with RWD, plus with the weight balance of an EV, straight-line performance will be better.

 

[gigglehertz]

I've never owned anything but FWD so I can't speak with any authority on the subject. However, if my finances allow I will be getting a dual motor version assuming it's available. It's one of those "don't need it until you need it" kinds of things. It doesn't snow here along the coast that often but when it has I've been very uncomfortable driving, especially since we have a lot of hills, even in town.

 

[Model 3]

Just to chime in here on this subject....

First, I do live in Norway, and have experience with real winter conditions every year with snow and ice+++, and I have experience with both FWD and RWD, and both big heavy and small cars and (almost) everything in between from both Europe, US and Asia.

What I prefer in the winter is RWD. Yes, RWD and FWD has both it's advantages and disadvantages in different situations. But in total the difference is not bigger then that I now have 2 different cars that both happens to be FWD. I did not chose them for been FWD, but it was cars I liked in the right price segment and they just happened to both be FWD. What's more importantly is if it is automatic transmission or manual. Manual transmission is better in winter, but I was in spite of that looking for cars with automatic. I ended up with one manual and one automatic, and don't use the transmission to decide witch car to drive under bad driving conditions. What causes me to decide which car (when I have a real choice) to use is the tires! One car (the one with automatic transmission) got new winter tires this winter, and is the one I will use if it is really bad conditions on the roads. I should have replaced 2 of the tires on the other car too, but has postponed it. So good winter tires is - IMHO - more important the if the car is FWD or RWD, automatic or manual.

I have no experience with AWD cars yet, but it goes without saying that it is better then both RWD and FWD. So if the price is right I will go for the TM3-D, if not, with whatever the base Model 3 comes with. But I hope and believe it will be RWD.

 

[vinnie97]

Just gimme the one that will maximize range at hopefully not too much of a premium.

 

[Dave Garaffa]

For me the owner of 5+ AWD vehicles going back to 96 (all subaru sans my wives Lincoln 2014 MKX) and that had a lot to do with living in a northern corner of NJ where you'll find a mountain (yes NJ does have mountains)... ANYWAY AWD is so nice and something I'd be hard pressed to walk away from even tho we are no longer living in said mountains. The feeling you get when your behind the week of an AWD is kinda hard to walk away from. We are still in NJ and this weekend we are likely to get 12+ inches of snow so yea AWD is gonna be nice to have if we need to venture out this weekend.

Anyway... I can be sure of two things... One - my next car WILL be a Tesla (yes!) and two unless its crazy expensive and/or not an option it'll be AWD.

 

[Blazing Whisper]

Since I live in Canada, AWD is a no-brainer.