Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[WarpedOne]

This indeed is a delicate situation that cannot really be fixed anymore without any negative consequences. Clearly it is taking longer than they thought it would and it will still take longer than they think know. One does not know what on does not know. Should we blame them for incompetence? Yes, once there are multiple cars out there with same or better AP.

it is really up to an individual what to do. He may keep on waiting or he may demand money back, with some interests for undelivered goods and cancelation of AP feature order. I don't think full refund for whole car is a real option. Not until one proves he was promised a car with a fully working AP from day one. In a few months does not have exact enough meaning that would hold through a court case.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I think Tesla needs to beef up the highlighted statement to make it more clear for those who don't eat, breathe, and live all things Tesla. As a consumer who just wants a car, I can see how there can be confusion.

 

[wk057]

I think Tesla needs to beef up the highlighted statement to make it more clear for those who don't eat, breathe, and live all things Tesla. As a consumer who just wants a car, I can see how there can be confusion.

View attachment 88254

That text does nothing to help new customers. How does a new customer know that 6.1 didn't include self-parking and lane keeping and 6.2 is just adding these new emergency braking and blind spot warning features, especially since those are things not even mentioned in the paragraph above which is 100% in present tense?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

And by the way, this wouldn't be the first time that Tesla got into hot water over advertising. I remember the State of California came down on Tesla for improperly advertising the price on their order page. That happened in 2012 or 2013, and Tesla changed things accordingly.

 

[Zaxxon]

And by the way, this wouldn't be the first time that Tesla got into hot water over advertising. I remember the State of California came down on Tesla for improperly advertising the price on their order page. That happened in 2012 or 2013, and Tesla changed things accordingly.

They were doing something presumably even worse than the misleading incentive/gas savings-included top line that they do today? What?

 

[wk057]

I'll say up front that I have a classic Sig Model S and I'm very happy with it, so I don't have AP hardware. That said, I do sympathize with your point of view, it's gotta be frustrating for all of you waiting on a feature you feel you already paid for. If the software isn't ready, it isn't ready and no company is going to release something with potential safety implications if they're not happy with it themselves. This is clearly a feature that Tesla intends to deliver and there's the rub; a lawsuit or Lemon claim might/would get someone their money back but then sooner or later the firmware will be released and the features enabled (sod's law, it'll probably be the day after some litigant gets their refund check). All you can really do is keep the pressure on and wait it out.

I'm NOT pressuring them to release something unsafe. I would expect them to make it very clear to new customers what features are currently available, however.

This indeed is a delicate situation that cannot really be fixed anymore without any negative consequences. Clearly it is taking longer than they thought it would and it will still take longer than they think know. One does not know what on does not know. Should we blame them for incompetence? Yes, once there are multiple cars out there with same or better AP.

it is really up to an individual what to do. He may keep on waiting or he may demand money back, with some interests for undelivered goods and cancelation of AP feature order. I don't think full refund for whole car is a real option. Not until one proves he was promised a car with a fully working AP from day one. In a few months does not have exact enough meaning that would hold through a court case.

I think your information is dated. The "few" or "several" months term hasn't been on the site for a while (and wasn't when the gentleman I referred to above placed his order). It was as it is now and is no way clear to new customers that the features aren't available. This man literally thought that adding the autopilot feature when the lane-keeping and self-parking being enabled OTA meant that paying for that feature would get him that update when he got the car and no one at Tesla told him otherwise even after asking about these features. It doesn't even have the word "future" anymore on the order page. Everything is present tense.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

That text does nothing to help new customers. How does a new customer know that 6.1 didn't include self-parking and lane keeping and 6.2 is just adding these new emergency braking and blind spot warning features?

Exactly. I'm in agreement with you. No car buyer would know what the heck these two sentences mean.

In fact, after reading what's on the web page, I take the disclaimer to mean that Autopilot already exists and is shipping - everything is described in the present tense - but that (future) features are enabled over time. I think Tesla has a mess on its hands here. Your story focused this for me from the perspective of someone who is solely relying on the web site. Nobody should be required to visit forums in order to get the true and complete picture.

What is Tesla's new communications person doing, for goodness sake? Who is in charge of Sales now, and what on earth are they thinking?

 

[Krugerrand]

How does a new customer know that 6.1 didn't include self-parking and lane keeping and 6.2 is just adding these new emergency braking and blind spot warning features?

Ask.

Does this car self-park?
Does this car have lane keeping?
Does this car make toast?

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Ask.

Does this car self-park?
Does this car have lane keeping?
Does this car make toast?

In order to ask, one has to first have the question in their mind. Imagine you are someone who knows nothing of Tesla, but wants to buy one of their cars. Why would you ask the above questions? There is no need. The web site is clear. Everything is present tense. In fact, even the self-parking box towards the bottom doesn't even contain a disclaimer...

 

[wk057]

Ask.

Does this car self-park?
Does this car have lane keeping?
Does this car make toast?

First, I'll point out the fact that you're telling people they have to ask about these things goes along with my earlier post that you're saying people shouldn't trust Tesla the company based on... what the company is telling people?

Second, the person I spoke to DID ask. He was specifically told that the autopilot package included all of the things he wanted, specifically self-parking, and was referred to the website for more details. He had no reason to dig further then that. It's on the website in black and white in present tense plain English that these features are available.

- - - Updated - - -

In order to ask, one has to first have the question in their mind. Imagine you are someone who knows nothing of Tesla, but wants to buy one of their cars. Why would you ask the above questions? There is no need. The web site is clear. Everything is present tense. In fact, even the self-parking box towards the bottom doesn't even contain a disclaimer...

This is pretty clear too. ^

 

[RyanT]

I would just wait 3-4 weeks like they last mentioned. We'll get reports in. I have a car with the AP hardware. ACC is great so I'm not complaining. If we get the Volvo type autopilot it's not going to be usefull anyways. Buying a car for a specific feature that you can't even test yet seems like a recipe for disappointment. Especially when it's something like autopilot.

I wonder if we're going to hear a lot about this in the future. People claiming that their idea of AP was more then what Tesla produces. That they were misslead by Tesla no matter what they actually put out. It seems like different people have different ideas of what it's actually capable of!

 

[WarpedOne]

Indeed, use Of present tense is misleading. False advertising?
They have to switch to future tense where they talk about planned capabilities. They can describe the hardware that is included in present tens, but not features that are not there yet. Highlighted words are not enough.

 

[wk057]

I would just wait 3-4 weeks like they last mentioned. We'll get reports in. I have a car with the AP hardware. ACC is great so I'm not complaining. If we get the Volvo type autopilot it's not going to be usefull anyways. Buying a car for a specific feature that you can't even test yet seems like a recipe for disappointment. Especially when it's something like autopilot.

I wonder if we're going to hear a lot about this in the future. People claiming that their idea of AP was more then what Tesla produces. That they were misslead by Tesla no matter what they actually put out. It seems like different people have different ideas of what it's actually capable of!

3-4 weeks was maybe for beta testers, not everyone.... and is at least the second time we've been told beta testers would have the software in 3-4 weeks over the course of the past two months. So, not much weight in that, IMO.

As for waiting to buy, see my above post and the post it links to. We shouldn't have to question what Tesla says the car does.

- - - Updated - - -

I want to point out, again, for those who may not be reading every post in this thread, that I am a huge supporter of Tesla. I vote with my wallet, and my wallet has seen the purchase of three top of the line Model S and an investment in their stock now worth more than those three cars combined. I want them to succeed.

However, I want them to stop with the BS marketing and do right by their customers and supporters. The P85D horsepower/range nonsense, autopilot misleading, etc... they need to make these things right or it's going to seriously cost them (and investors) significantly.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Buying a car for a specific feature that you can't even test yet seems like a recipe for disappointment. Especially when it's something like autopilot.

Except, for some, they were told the feature does not currently exist on the day of delivery. What do you say to those people? It seems that some here are saying that we shouldn't trust or believe what Tesla advertises on its own web site, and that further due diligence is needed. In all my life buying multiple new vehicles, I always trusted and believed the representations that were made about any vehicle I was buying. I would have no reason to think that what was stated on the web site wasn't true.

 

[RDoc]

Autopilot and self parking were a consideration when we bought our car, although I knew it wouldn't be available for some time, and that was and is fine. However, as it looks more difficult to implement these features than Tesla originally thought (and said), I'm becoming somewhat concerned that it's going to take more sensors, e.g. better radar(s) and/or cameras that will be included in future cars and won't be practical to retrofit. That would really disappoint me a lot.

 

[MrClown]

I've been forgiving of Tesla insofar as their original announcement made it clear to me that these features would be rolled out over time and I was already familiar with Elon time generally so delays were not a surprise (a little disappointing, sure). I'll continue to wait patiently for the lane keeping for a while longer.

That said, the current situation with the wording on the website is just bad all around. I agree they're going to get into trouble with that; there's nothing good about it for them. If I was a new buyer I could imagine myself being rather upset ordering today and not getting lane keeping and self parking. It's beyond "unclear." It's actually "clear" that those features exist from that text.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

... and believe me, there are plenty of lawyers who would jump at something like this.

 

[BozieBeMe2]

Honest question here: why aren't you using your turn signals in that case, and when the lane departure warning bugged you about it, why was your workaround to turn it off rather than to start using your turn signals?

Lack of signaling is something that really bugs me when I'm driving. People are just amazingly bad about it. What baffles me is that it's so easy to do: just move your hand very slightly to turn the signal on when you're making a move. It's basically zero effort. Changing lanes? Signal! Turning? Signal! Nobody's around? I don't care, signal!

I would like to know more about the mentality of people who don't do this, because it baffles and irritates me.

I drive, on average, more than 1200 miles a week, just going to & from work. I am in my late 60's and I am truly amazed at most drivers skills. I travel thru Indianapolis, Ft Wayne, Toledo, Detroit and all are the same.
Stuck in the left lane, speeding up and slowing down (cell phone usage), changing lanes with NO turn signal, Failing to use headlights near dusk of just plain forgetting to turn them on. (I see you, so use must see me, right?)
All of this technology that Tessie uses depends on you, the driver, to be alert, curtious and put up that damned phone!
Tesla has delivered a magnificent car, can any of us even try to do as much???

 

[Andyw2100]

However, I want them to stop with the BS marketing and do right by their customers and supporters. The P85D horsepower/range nonsense, autopilot misleading, etc... they need to make these things right or it's going to seriously cost them (and investors) significantly.

Tesla could hit a home run by scrapping the plans to charge the current P85D owners for the Ludicrous Mode update and just give it to us all at no charge.

While I'd benefit to the tune of $6600 or whatever the price turns out to be if they did this, that's honestly not why I'm suggesting it. I really think it's the right thing to do, and that long-term it is in Tesla's best interest.

For starters, a gesture like this would go a long way towards righting most of our perceived wrongs. More importantly, think of the amazing press Tesla would get, and the mileage they would get out of that? I think it's hard to put a dollar value on that, but it has to be huge.

Doing something like this would also eliminate the risk of most of the class action suits that people have been talking about. There is a lot of money at stake here, and with the Ludicrous mode announcement Tesla has come awfully close to admitting what many of us have been claiming about the P85D not being delivered as advertised with respect to being able to produce 691 HP. What do you think will happen if Tesla does stick to the $6600 per (or whatever) upgrade cost, and somewhere between 1000 and 2000 P85D owners pay for the upgrade? Do you really think there isn't a lawyer somewhere that will come out of the woodwork and try to get a class action going?

Tesla should just change their position, and announce that the $5000 Ludicrous mode upgrade will be given free to all current P85D owners. It's the right thing to do for many reasons, and I'm convinced it would ultimately help Tesla's bottom line.

 

[Electricfan]

I'm becoming somewhat concerned that it's going to take more sensors, e.g. better radar(s) and/or cameras that will be included in future cars and won't be practical to retrofit. That would really disappoint me a lot.

That's what I'm afraid of. It sure seems like they would have put it out by now if they could. If they bail on it, I hope there are consequences.