Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[ecarfan]

Sigh... it's not autonomous on highways. It's autopilot. I'm surprised that EM can't even get that correct

He said: "We are probably a month away from having autonomous driving at least for highways and for relatively simple roads..."
He is using a restricted definition of "autonomous driving" to a specific subset of use cases. I think he should have said "Autopilot" Not "autonomous", but if the car has a nav route it is following and Autosteering is running, it is in a sense behaving autonomously. So one could argue that for those use cases the car can do "autonomous" driving. It is not "full autonomous" driving, as he points out in the interview.

 

[Max*]

There are a few misconceptions as to what you just posted. I want to correct it so that other people don't get the impression it's autonomous.

He said: "We are probably a month away from having autonomous driving at least for highways and for relatively simple roads..."
He is using a restricted definition of "autonomous driving" to a specific subset of use cases.

It's not autonomous driving, period. There's zero question about it. It's an aide. Autonomous driving (even on the highways) would mean I could take a nap. I can't take a nap with "autonomous driving on the highways", it's autopilot, or assisted driving.

I think he should have said "Autopilot" Not "autonomous", but if the car has a nav route it is following and Autosteering is running, it is in a sense behaving autonomously. So one could argue that for those use cases the car can do "autonomous" driving.

AP isn't going to follow the nav. AP can't change lanes on it's own - it's user initiated ONLY (still listed on the Tesla webpage). AP is going to KEEP you in the lane you're in. If there is a fork in the road, you better hope you're paying attention.

It is not "full autonomous" driving, as he points out in the interview.

We're at level 2 autonomous now (well we will be soon) with auto-steer and TACC.
Level 3 will be true highway autonomous driving. On-ramp to off-ramp. You set a destination, it'll take you there. Elon implied AP will do this. It can not on the current generation of Model S's. Maybe the Model X has more hardware/etc.
Level 4 is full autonomous (I think there might be a 4a and 4b? I forget the exact distinctions)

Using "autonomous highway driving" he's implying it'll be Level 3. It wont be on the Model S. Who knows, maybe it will be on the Model X at the reveal, but I have my doubts. I think we're still at least a few years away from that.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Leavin aside the Elon-speak and hyperbole, I do wonder if there is some level of interaction with Nav... It would be nice if AP disabled with a notice when you are close to your exit for example.

 

[taurusking]

User initiated lane changing was promised. But not autonomous lane change.

You are right...I think lot of people are confused as what Auto pilot features are...I see that lot on face book.

Auto pilot is not equal to autonomous driving

 

[Max*]

Leavin aside the Elon-speak and hyperbole, I do wonder if there is some level of interaction with Nav... It would be nice if AP disabled with a notice when you are close to your exit for example.

I disagree. I don't want AP to disable at any point in time. I use TACC on "city streets" too, even though it's not intended for that. I'm careful, know it's limitations, yadda yadda yadda. If I want to use AP under the same circumstance, I don't want it disabling willy nilly next to my destination.

You are right...I think lot of people are confused as what Auto pilot features are...I see that lot on face book.

Auto pilot is not equal to autonomous driving

That's my line

 

[dsm363]

I disagree. I don't want AP to disable at any point in time. I use TACC on "city streets" too, even though it's not intended for that. I'm careful, know it's limitations, yadda yadda yadda. If I want to use AP under the same circumstance, I don't want it disabling willy nilly next to my destination.



That's my line

You are right. He should have been more precise.
I don't think you'll get the driving features you want. They have never promised as you said it's not intended for that.

 

[Skotty]

I'm still very skeptical of autonomous driving. I think it will be assisted for many decades, and full autonomous driving will require either custom built roadways for that purpose or software almost as sophisticated as a human brain to handle the millions of corner cases and unusual encounters without killing people. I expect a lot of delays in industry and disappointment from the public over this in the years to come. I hope Tesla doesn't take too much heat over it.

 

[Max*]

You are right. He should have been more precise.
I don't think you'll get the driving features you want. They have never promised as you said it's not intended for that.

Huh? The only feature I want is for the car to let me chose when to enable auto-steer, just like I can chose when to enable TACC. And I think it might do this, based on one of his other comments in the interview, he said highways and selected streets (or something like that)

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still very skeptical of autonomous driving. I think it will be assisted for many decades, and full autonomous driving will require either custom built roadways for that purpose or software almost as sophisticated as a human brain to handle the millions of corner cases and unusual encounters without killing people. I expect a lot of delays in industry and disappointment from the public over this in the years to come. I hope Tesla doesn't take too much heat over it.

Google car is driving full autonomous for over a million miles. It has it's limitations, including only going 25mph, can't make a left turn on a multi-lane street, overly cautious if it's confused, can only travel down routes that were pre-planned, etc. But it is full autonomous under those conditions already.

I don't think we're "many decades" away from being unassisted (just my opinion).

 

[dsm363]

Huh? The only feature I want is for the car to let me chose when to enable auto-steer, just like I can chose when to enable TACC. And I think it might do this, based on one of his other comments in the interview, he said highways and selected streets (or something like that)

- - - Updated - - -



Google car is driving full autonomous for over a million miles. It has it's limitations, including only going 25mph, can't make a left turn on a multi-lane street, overly cautious if it's confused, can only travel down routes that were pre-planned, etc. But it is full autonomous under those conditions already.

I don't think we're "many decades" away from being unassisted (just my opinion).

You said you don't want autopilot to disable at any time. Even city streets. If the system thinks it can't handle what it is seeing it will likely disable.

 

[Max*]

You said you don't want autopilot to disable at any time. Even city streets. If the system things it can't handle what it is seeing it will likely disable.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - my response was directly to Stoneymonster. He said it'd be nice if AP disabled as you were approaching your highway offramp.

I said I don't want AP to disable under any [per-programmed] circumstances/conditions. Stating that I want to use when I want to use it, and I don't want the nav arbitrarily deciding when to turn it off (i.e. city streets [with clear lane markings]).

Obviously it's going to disable if it can't keep lane, just like TACC disables if the front radar is abstracted.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Sorry, I wasn't clear - my response was directly to Stoneymonster. He said it'd be nice if AP disabled as you were approaching your highway

Then I'm gonna miss a lot of exits.

 

[ecarfan]

Okay, fair enough. So according to your post there are 4 levels of autonomous driving and Tesla is about to release a "Level 2" version of autonomous driving. So Musk should have said "Level 2 autonomous driving?
It seems to me that there are numerous interpretations of the term "autonomous driving".

We're at level 2 autonomous now (well we will be soon) with auto-steer and TACC.
Level 3 will be true highway autonomous driving. On-ramp to off-ramp. You set a destination, it'll take you there. Elon implied AP will do this. It can not on the current generation of Model S's. Maybe the Model X has more hardware/etc.
Level 4 is full autonomous (I think there might be a 4a and 4b? I forget the exact distinctions)
Using "autonomous highway driving" he's implying it'll be Level 3. It wont be on the Model S. Who knows, maybe it will be on the Model X at the reveal, but I have my doubts. I think we're still at least a few years away from that.

 

[green1]

Then I'm gonna miss a lot of exits.

It's not all or nothing.
Proper action for this level of automation is to notify you that your exit is coming up, allow you to take control if you want, but if you don't, continue and not just turn off and let you drift in to the barrier.
And actually I suspect this is exactly what it will do, if you have voice guidance enabled, you'll get told "take the exit" which should allow you time to take over and do so.

 

[Max*]

Okay, fair enough. So according to your post there are 4 levels of autonomous driving and Tesla is about to release a "Level 2" version of autonomous driving. So Musk should have said "Level 2 autonomous driving?
It seems to me that there are numerous interpretations of the term "autonomous driving".

I see your point, and I never thought of it that way.

When I hear "highway autonomous", I think level 3. When I hear full autonomous I hear level 4. I don't consider level 0-2 autonomous in any way shape or form. But I can see how it could be spun to say that the cars will be Level 2 autonomous.

And I think I'm not alone

Another example:

They only call Level 3 and above autonomous.

Side note: 5 levels. Level 0 is a car with no automation (no emergency braking, etc.)

 

[boonedocks]

So disheartening

From Elon: Another month = Soon = Someday = We are upon the one year announcement and still don't really have a definitive date = Hurry up and wait = Be patient = It really is getting old......

 

[Stoneymonster]

It's not all or nothing.
Proper action for this level of automation is to notify you that your exit is coming up, allow you to take control if you want, but if you don't, continue and not just turn off and let you drift in to the barrier.
And actually I suspect this is exactly what it will do, if you have voice guidance enabled, you'll get told "take the exit" which should allow you time to take over and do so.

This was more of a personal self-deprecation that missed. I *already* miss a lot of exits (I hate the voice guidance and turn it off) because while I am a good driver, I am oblivious to navigation (internal or computer-aided). So with AP I suspect I will get worse

 

[bestfind]

So disheartening

From Elon: Another month = Soon = Someday = We are upon the one year announcement and still don't really have a definitive date = Hurry up and wait = Be patient = It really is getting old......

Every time Elon mentions a new estimate of when v7 will arrive I find my self believing it. Even now I am thinking; we have waited for so long, surely it must be released in November. Even when he is hesitating and saying "probably a month away".

This sucks

 

[gizmoboy]

I wasn't convinced before, it could have just been a few non-EAP customers did accidentally get on the list, but there's no way they would let that "accident" repeat for the second EAP release!

You have obviously never worked for a software company...

 

[green1]

When I hear "highway autonomous", I think level 3. When I hear full autonomous I hear level 4. I don't consider level 0-2 autonomous in any way shape or form. But I can see how it could be spun to say that the cars will be Level 2 autonomous.

Another example:

They only call Level 3 and above autonomous.

Side note: 5 levels. Level 0 is a car with no automation (no emergency braking, etc.)

I look forward to a car with level 3, I dread one with level 4....

The difference is a level 3 car CAN do everything, but will allow you to drive, a level 4 car will make it difficult for you to get any control back. While great in theory, I have yet to see even the most advanced pie in the sky concepts that can handle driving in winter around here.

 

[gizmoboy]

Then I'm gonna miss a lot of exits.

Maybe it'll teach you to pay attention better.

(Sometimes I find myself "waking up" and I'm not sure if I missed my exit or not for a few seconds -- too lost in my own thoughts and I was on autopilot of a different kind. I can be scary at times.)