Autopilot lane keeping still not available over 6 months after delivery

[stopcrazypp]

So disheartening

From Elon: Another month = Soon = Someday = We are upon the one year announcement and still don't really have a definitive date = Hurry up and wait = Be patient = It really is getting old......

To be fair this does not break from Elon's previous estimates. He said it was 1-2 months if Beta goes well (longer if not). We just went past the 1 month point on 9/15 (assuming Beta release was on time on 8/15).

 

[vitaliy]

The difference is a level 3 car CAN do everything, but will allow you to drive, a level 4 car will make it difficult for you to get any control back. While great in theory, I have yet to see even the most advanced pie in the sky concepts that can handle driving in winter around here.

Not to mention enjoyment of driving.... Will all those fancy brands like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, McLaren, etc., became obsolete? If so, I'm happy to live at this very moment while I still can drive my own cars.

 

[Max*]

Not to mention enjoyment of driving.... Will all those fancy brands like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, McLaren, etc., became obsolete? If so, I'm happy to live at this very moment while I still can drive my own cars.

Just like manual transmission went obsolete in all of those fancy cars. And ICE might go obsolete in those fancy cars. I don't see why steering wheels can't go obsolete in those fancy cars.

 

[MarcG]

He said: "We are probably a month away from having autonomous driving at least for highways and for relatively simple roads..."

I'm surprised no one has commented on the above highlighted text (emphasis mine). How does Elon define "relatively simple roads"? Straight freeways with clear lane markings only? How about curvy freeways, like I-5 in NorCal/Oregon? What about faded lane markings, like the infamous I-405 in eastern LA?

 

[MartinAustin]

I'm surprised no one has commented on the above highlighted text (emphasis mine). How does Elon define "relatively simple roads"? Straight freeways with clear lane markings only? How about curvy freeways, like I-5 in NorCal/Oregon? What about faded lane markings, like the infamous I-405 in eastern LA?

It is going to be the driver's responsibility to decide when to engage Autopilot and when not to.

If you are a commuter, of course you will try it on your commute. The first time you switch it on, you will be fully on-guard and monitoring every move of the car.

If the car does OK on your commute, you will feel more relaxed about letting it do the driving.

However, if you take a drive out to the country, or some new route that involves road works, temporary road markings etc. etc. - it is in your interests to drive manually or monitor very carefully what the Autopilot is doing.

By "relatively simple roads" Elon means roads that don't have a lot of weird edge cases, like bad road markings. Once you are confident that the car does a pretty good job on a certain road, you can be more relaxed about taking your hands and eyes off the driving duties. Until the day that they start digging up the road, that is.

 

[MarcG]

By "relatively simple roads" Elon means roads that don't have a lot of weird edge cases, like bad road markings.

Well, that's our assumption, but my point is: what does TESLA define as "relatively simple roads"? And to my point:

Once you are confident that the car does a pretty good job on a certain road, you can be more relaxed about taking your hands and eyes off the driving duties.

How do WE know what the threshold is to feel "confident that the car does a pretty good job", if Tesla hasn't clearly defined what the car can and can't manage on its own?

 

[Majerus]

Well, that's our assumption, but my point is: what does TESLA define as "relatively simple roads"? And to my point:



How do WE know what the threshold is to feel "confident that the car does a pretty good job", if Tesla hasn't clearly defined what the car can and can't manage on its own?

I think it will be like TACC, Initially you just test it, wait for the edge cases where it fails. This is how you will determine what the car can or cannot manage. How would you describe the limitations of TACC into words everyone will understand without trying it? IMO you couldnt and even if you did it would take a rather foolish person to put blind trust in their understanding of said text, without testing it personally.

 

[MarcG]

I think it will be like TACC, Initially you just test it, wait for the edge cases where it fails. This is how you will determine what the car can or cannot manage. How would you describe the limitations of TACC into words everyone will understand without trying it? IMO you couldnt and even if you did it would take a rather foolish person to put blind trust in their understanding of said text, without testing it personally.

The difference here is that, unless there's a radar or camera malfunction/blockage, TACC can ALWAYS be engaged at speeds 18mph or above, regardless of what the road conditions are.

With Autopilot (TACC + Autosteer), the road conditions and location DO matter, which means sometimes I may get the full Autopilot (including Autosteer) and sometimes I may just get TACC. This will depend on whether the road is "relatively simple" or not.

So, to even get Autosteer to engage, it sounds from Elon's comment that the road must be "relatively simple". If it's not, Autosteer won't engage, but TACC will. It would be nice if, as a driver, I know ahead of time what "relatively simple" means to the car so I know what to expect.

Of course, whether or not Autosteer is engaged could be clearly communicated to the driver at the time Autopilot is engaged, but then there must also be a very obvious warning when Autopilot is engaged but the car determines the road is no longer "relatively simple" so the driver can take over the steering function.

My point is, if I know as the driver what those conditions are, I would know (even potentially ahead of the car) when to take steering back over and not have to wait for the car to tell me to.

 

[gizmoboy]

Well, that's our assumption, but my point is: what does TESLA define as "relatively simple roads"? And to my point:

How do WE know what the threshold is to feel "confident that the car does a pretty good job", if Tesla hasn't clearly defined what the car can and can't manage on its own?

None of this is Tesla's definition; it's all ours.

I read Elon's quote as freeways PLUS relatively simple non-freeway roads, but YMMV, and it's always up to you to monitor what it's doing and be ready to take over.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it will be like TACC, Initially you just test it, wait for the edge cases where it fails. This is how you will determine what the car can or cannot manage. How would you describe the limitations of TACC into words everyone will understand without trying it? IMO you couldnt and even if you did it would take a rather foolish person to put blind trust in their understanding of said text, without testing it personally.

Very sensible perspective, it seems to me.

 

[Cyclone]

Then I'm gonna miss a lot of exits.

I did this even in a car without cruise control. Driving from Pompano Beach -> Fort Lauderdale on I-95 South, I didn't realize I missed my exit till I was in Miami 15+ miles later!

- - - Updated - - -

I disagree. I don't want AP to disable at any point in time. I use TACC on "city streets" too, even though it's not intended for that. I'm careful, know it's limitations, yadda yadda yadda. If I want to use AP under the same circumstance, I don't want it disabling willy nilly next to my destination.

I fear you may be disappointed. Tesla has chosen that on AP-enabled cars (even w/o the software deployed yet), your choices are TACC or no cruise control -- you CANNOT choose regular cruise control. Tesla may deploy with AP or no cruise control, with "just TACC" not an option.

Now, I'm not speaking with any knowledge of their plans. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised if they made that decision with the precedent set for TACC vs. traditional CC. This would also likely NOT be how it works since the beta leak had Autosteer as a selectable on-off option. But someday, it may be the choice Tesla gives (they took away "Normal" mode on the 85D and made "Sport" on 24/7 when initially you had a choice).

 

[AmpedRealtor]

He said: "We are probably a month away from having autonomous driving at least for highways and for relatively simple roads..."
He is using a restricted definition of "autonomous driving" to a specific subset of use cases. I think he should have said "Autopilot" Not "autonomous", but if the car has a nav route it is following and Autosteering is running, it is in a sense behaving autonomously. So one could argue that for those use cases the car can do "autonomous" driving. It is not "full autonomous" driving, as he points out in the interview.

He also said during this interview that we will have a 1,000 km battery by 2017 and a 1,200 km battery by 2020. Of course, Elon was talking about the absolute maximum range as achieved by driving at 40-50 km/hr, but many are going to take his comments out of context and expect a 600 mile real-world range Model S in 2 years.

 

[Stoneymonster]

He also said during this interview that we will have a 1,000 km battery by 2017 and a 1,200 km battery by 2020. Of course, Elon was talking about the absolute maximum range as achieved by driving at 40-50 km/hr, but many are going to take his comments out of context and expect a 600 mile real-world range Model S in 2 years.

I think somewhere in the 300-400 mile real world range is the real possibility, and I'll take it!

 

[dsm363]

I think somewhere in the 300-400 mile real world range is the real possibility, and I'll take it!

Me too. 300 highway miles in cold or 350+ in normal weather would be amazing.

 

[Max*]

I did this even in a car without cruise control. Driving from Pompano Beach -> Fort Lauderdale on I-95 South, I didn't realize I missed my exit till I was in Miami 15+ miles later!

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I fear you may be disappointed. Tesla has chosen that on AP-enabled cars (even w/o the software deployed yet), your choices are TACC or no cruise control -- you CANNOT choose regular cruise control. Tesla may deploy with AP or no cruise control, with "just TACC" not an option.

Now, I'm not speaking with any knowledge of their plans. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised if they made that decision with the precedent set for TACC vs. traditional CC. This would also likely NOT be how it works since the beta leak had Autosteer as a selectable on-off option. But someday, it may be the choice Tesla gives (they took away "Normal" mode on the 85D and made "Sport" on 24/7 when initially you had a choice).

That's a good point.

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I think somewhere in the 300-400 mile real world range is the real possibility, and I'll take it!

He stated 5% growth per year battery wise, I believe. Considering the 90D is almost 300 miles. In 2 years, the 100-105D would do 300 miles in the cold.

 

[donv]

There is a screen shot somewhere of the Settings page. It has a selection for Autosteer On/Off, and also auto lane change On/Off.

Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion - Page 95

I fear you may be disappointed. Tesla has chosen that on AP-enabled cars (even w/o the software deployed yet), your choices are TACC or no cruise control -- you CANNOT choose regular cruise control. Tesla may deploy with AP or no cruise control, with "just TACC" not an option.

Now, I'm not speaking with any knowledge of their plans. Just saying I wouldn't be surprised if they made that decision with the precedent set for TACC vs. traditional CC. This would also likely NOT be how it works since the beta leak had Autosteer as a selectable on-off option. But someday, it may be the choice Tesla gives (they took away "Normal" mode on the 85D and made "Sport" on 24/7 when initially you had a choice).

 

[Cyclone]

There is a screen shot somewhere of the Settings page. It has a selection for Autosteer On/Off, and also auto lane change On/Off.

Firmware 7.0 Beta Discussion - Page 95

Yes. But it was Beta, not public release. And I personally think the selection will be there in the public release, but Tesla has before taken away a selectable option and make a specific mode "always on" (see above mention of Normal vs. Sport acceleration on 85D).

 

[Andyw2100]

Yes. But it was Beta, not public release. And I personally think the selection will be there in the public release, but Tesla has before taken away a selectable option and make a specific mode "always on" (see above mention of Normal vs. Sport acceleration on 85D).

See also the D launch. There were three driving modes in those cars. I believe they were Normal (or Standard?), Sport, and Insane.

 

[Lump]

I rode in a Model S equipped with Teslas how it works [Part 1] | Electrek

 

[Cyclone]

I rode in a Model S equipped with Teslas how it works [Part 1] | Electrek

Somewhere on this forum I remember getting reamed about saying I would imagine Tesla would do something like this. I hope it makes it to the general v7 release!

If you ignore the “hold the steering-wheel” alert for too long, even if it’s now back to normal for the Autopilot, it will change into a “take control immediately” alert, which will flash your hazard lights, slow down and steer the vehicle to the side of the road. The transition is presumably the Autopilot assuming that if you are not seeing the alert, you might be incapacitated and therefore it stops the vehicle.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Somewhere on this forum I remember getting reamed about saying I would imagine Tesla would do something like this. I hope it makes it to the general v7 release!

I don't know which category you fall under, but I remember that there were those that claimed Tesla's system would be no different than existing lane keeping in that it will nag you to touch the steering wheel at a set time interval.

Reading the review, that appears to not be the case here. It only tells you to touch the steering wheel if autopilot feels like it doesn't have enough data to continue. If it does, it will continue going on (there is no time interval).