Autopilot 7.0: When to be most on your toes?

[Papafox]

In the first pictures, it appears that the car is too far left of centered
between the lane lines, perhaps because it is on a curve?

In the second pictures, it appears that the sensors are overestimating
the distance to the divider wall, and that the car might be centered
between the percieved wall position and the lane marking on the right.
However, the sensor arcs might not be drawn to scale, and the car still
appears to be too far to the left.

I just reviewed the video of these two moments close to the left concrete barrier. The first instance is just as you said, the result of a rather quick turn and the car had not yet re-centered itself in the lane at the conclusion of the turn. In the second instance, the one that produced yellowish-orange object warnings, the car had completed a left turn but it was a little slow coming out of the turn since a left side of lane stripe no longer existed and it apparently based its steering upon the existence of objects sensed off the left side of the vehicle. Since the Tesla was drawing yellowish-orange semicircles, it was indicating that these obstacles are close and of an immediate concern. I can tell you from my pucker factor at the time that we were as close to that concrete barrier as I wished to go and I would have disconnected autosteer through turning the wheel, but autosteer did its own correction back to the center of the lane.

The lesson I learned? Don't drive in the left lane of a winding mountain highway if a concrete barrier defines the left side of the lane and yellow edge-of-highway markings are absent. Autosteer did okay, but it exceeded my comfort zone. The combination of three challenges (turns, close concrete barrier, and a lack of lane edge markings) is more than what I wish to trust autosteer with at this stage of its development.

 

[Papafox]

Correct, one of the problems with current TACC is that it will launch you overtaking other cars on the inside when a car you were following in that lane takes an exit and moves out from in front of you. If you had TACC set to a higher speed you will speed up and surprise other drivers. You can also be penalised for it. I can see this not being a problem in the US following a 'keep your lane' policy but with a 'keep your speed' system it doesn't work.

Robertvg, Here's a tweet from Elon: Elon Musk ‏@elonmusk Oct 23Autopilot 1.01 coming soon: curve speed adaption, controller smoothness, better lane holding on poor roads, improved fleet learning!

Perhaps that "controller smoothness" will address the launching after a slow car clears your lane. Although personal preferences vary, I agree with you that TACC is too aggressive for my tastes and for best energy economy iwhen it accelerates this quickly after a slow car gets out of the way.

 

[cmu5p]

@Papa fox UPDATE RE: Tractor Trailer shadows-

So far, no more erratic steering or sudden disabling of auto steer next to big trucks in the last week of testing on the interstate. Either:
1) I've not been able to reproduce the right shadow angle, etc. OR
2) I've been more vigilant about paying attention when it says "Hold steering wheel" (which I have, although, AP hasn't done this next to a tractor trailer in the last week) OR
3) AP is getting to know my driving patterns.

Either way, I'm a happy camper. 40 miles of interstate commute each way to work with 30+miles of it handled solely by Autopilot.

Drive on, AP.

 

[Vger]

Wet pavement at night with glare from street lights/other vehicle headlights.....NOT all the time but can happen suddenly.

Yes, and also saw this while driving southwest in late afternoon after a rain shower. The glare off the road surface made the lane markings intermittently almost invisible, even to me. I noticed it and grabbed the wheel, just before AP imposed me to do so! If you cannot see the lane marks, the camera cannot either!

- - - Updated - - -

I also THOUGHT I detected another possible problem in sun-shower conditions: One of the windshield wipers crosses in front of AP camera. Of course that is necessary to clear rain and snow. But during an intermittent swipe by the wipers in a light shower, the AutoSteer gave a sharp wiggle. PERHAPS, this was due to being momentarily blinded by the wiper at some critical moment for lane recognition. The AP did not panic, but I instinctively grabbed the wheel to correct the wobble.

Anyone else?

 

[Papafox]

@Papa fox UPDATE RE: Tractor Trailer shadows-

So far, no more erratic steering or sudden disabling of auto steer next to big trucks in the last week of testing on the interstate. Either:
1) I've not been able to reproduce the right shadow angle, etc. OR
2) I've been more vigilant about paying attention when it says "Hold steering wheel" (which I have, although, AP hasn't done this next to a tractor trailer in the last week) OR
3) AP is getting to know my driving patterns.

Either way, I'm a happy camper. 40 miles of interstate commute each way to work with 30+miles of it handled solely by Autopilot.

Drive on, AP.

cmu5p, that's great to hear. If your experience changes, please let us know, and with as many details as possible, please.

 

[garygid]

Some have reported TACC slowing in areas where a new road does not
follow the same path as the old road that the dash-nav shows.

I found that AP passing a truck that was a bit too close to my right-side lane
line would move my car a bit left, but usually only after I had mostly passed
the truck. It seemed that either its response was slow, or that only the
rear side-sensor was operating properly, or both.

 

[cmu5p]

I found that AP passing a truck that was a bit too close to my right-side lane
line would move my car a bit left, but usually only after I had mostly passed
the truck. It seemed that either its response was slow, or that only the
rear side-sensor was operating properly, or both.

in retrospect, I think this may have been what happened to me on day 1:
AP next to tractor trailer drove too close to right lane, I abruptly over correct to the left, turning off AP. Happened three times on day 1, not since. Turns out could be operator error, not necessarily AP error.

 

[calisnow]

Big problems: cresting hills causes Autopilot to literally dive into the left lane or attempt to shoot off to the right.

Autopilot had severe problems on a two lane (no center divider - yes, I know, it isn't designed for this) stretch of I-395 running north-south between I-15 and Highway 14 both yesterday and the day before (both directions).

The challenge was not curves or the way the road is marked, it's that this particular section of highway has numerous sharp hills and dips (or "whoo de whoops" as I've heard them called). Testing yesterday and the day before found Autopilot to lose the lane markings and not just shut off, but also turn sharply left or right (seemed random as to which way - couldn't find a pattern) while sounding the "take control immediately" buzzer. To be clear the road had no curves in it - only hills and dips.

Again, the problem is not just that it shuts down - it's that something about cresting sharp hills causes it to veer sharply to the left or right as it loses the lane markings where they disappear on the crest of the hill.

And yes, I let it go all the way across the center line of the road before manually correcting to see what it would do. Quite frightening if someone wasn't on top of the situation.

I would think this behavior could easily be programmed out of it with some gps data telling it that the road is straight ahead.

PROS: I haven't seen it display any sketchy behavior when traveling near semi trucks or trailers as others have reported. Has been rock solid in heavy traffic.

 

[Papafox]

Big problems: cresting hills causes Autopilot to literally dive into the left lane or attempt to shoot off to the right.

Autopilot had severe problems on a two lane (no center divider - yes, I know, it isn't designed for this) stretch of I-395 running north-south between I-15 and Highway 14 both yesterday and the day before (both directions).

The challenge was not curves or the way the road is marked, it's that this particular section of highway has numerous sharp hills and dips (or "whoo de whoops" as I've heard them called). Testing yesterday and the day before found Autopilot to lose the lane markings and not just shut off, but also turn sharply left or right (seemed random as to which way - couldn't find a pattern) while sounding the "take control immediately" buzzer. To be clear the road had no curves in it - only hills and dips.

Again, the problem is not just that it shuts down - it's that something about cresting sharp hills causes it to veer sharply to the left or right as it loses the lane markings where they disappear on the crest of the hill.

And yes, I let it go all the way across the center line of the road before manually correcting to see what it would do. Quite frightening if someone wasn't on top of the situation.

I would think this behavior could easily be programmed out of it with some gps data telling it that the road is straight ahead.

PROS: I haven't seen it display any sketchy behavior when traveling near semi trucks or trailers as others have reported. Has been rock solid in heavy traffic.

I believe Tesla's strategy is to create a database of roads so that when the road's characteristics do not allow good tracking with the visual sensors it will receive help from the database. The issue of cresting steep hills is important enough so that I will add it to the first post. As for turning left or right after the autopilot shuts off, I don't see any mechanism that would promote such behavior. Maybe the bounce after coming over the crest of a hill is destabilizing, but at that point you would have your hands on the wheel and correct for any tendency to go left or go right, I would suspect. What does the wheel feel like after you come over the crest of a hill and the Tesla settles?

I know the bumps in the southern portion of 395 because I drove them a month ago, northbound. You're right that 395 at that point is a real roller-coaster. Since there's no center divider, Tesla does not recommend using autopilot, so you really need to have hands on wheel and be ready to take over in that environment.

 

[Khatsalano]

I'm not sure how well-implemented self learning is, but I was one of the members who posted issues when lanes split and when lanes merge in the first week.

Well, several weeks later, umm ... I think the car learned. On 280 N going into SF at the Daly City/Downtown split after the US-101 split, the car used to freak out at the lane splits both from 2 to 3 lanes, and then again at the Daly City/Downtown split. Now, it handles it! It's not smooth, but it doesn't freak out with the red hands beeping anymore. Neat.

- K

 

[cmu5p]

I'm not sure how well-implemented self learning is, but I was one of the members who posted issues when lanes split and when lanes merge in the first week.

Well, several weeks later, umm ... I think the car learned. On 280 N going into SF at the Daly City/Downtown split after the US-101 split, the car used to freak out at the lane splits both from 2 to 3 lanes, and then again at the Daly City/Downtown split. Now, it handles it! It's not smooth, but it doesn't freak out with the red hands beeping anymore. Neat.

- K

I agree. I've started taking some empty curvy highways late night/ early morning and have noticed it is no longer asking me to "Hold steering wheel" at the usual curves. I'd "float" my hands over the wheel, but now no longer getting the visual prompt. It is creepy and amazing (but more amazing).

And, Yes, I know for interstate use is best. Was very cautiously trying out AP's abilities on various roads.

 

[calisnow]

The issue of cresting steep hills is important enough so that I will add it to the first post. As for turning left or right after the autopilot shuts off, I don't see any mechanism that would promote such behavior. Maybe the bounce after coming over the crest of a hill is destabilizing

Yes that's exactly the moment when the car decides to veer off the shoulder or into oncoming traffic - not just before the crest, but *during* the crest - the part where you feel weightless. And for whatever it's worth the car I was driving was a 2015 70, RWD with the traditional coilovers - not the air suspension.

 

[mspohr]

Yes that's exactly the moment when the car decides to veer off the shoulder or into oncoming traffic - not just before the crest, but *during* the crest - the part where you feel weightless. And for whatever it's worth the car I was driving was a 2015 70, RWD with the traditional coilovers - not the air suspension.

I've driven that road recently (before AP) and if you're going weightless you're probably going too fast for AP. There are limits to what's possible. I've noticed that even on the I80 over Donner summit it gets dodgy over 75 mph.

 

[calisnow]

I've driven that road recently (before AP) and if you're going weightless you're probably going too fast for AP. There are limits to what's possible. I've noticed that even on the I80 over Donner summit it gets dodgy over 75 mph.

Yeah I would say speed was under 75 but over 65 - probably 70.

 

[ilovemycoffee]

I suppose these observations are obvious, but I wanted to share this everyone.

We drove yesterday on two lane highways and concluded that AP does not work very well in the rain at night. The glare of lights from oncoming traffic essentially prevents the camera from visualizing the road (just like human eyes). Water on the road and leaves can mess with AP, day or night.

AP does not like passing lanes yet, wants to keep to the left. Hopefully it will learn our little highway. It actually did well in the daylight and light rain.

I still appreciate the auto windshield wipers and auto high beam dimming though. Helps to keep your eyes on the road.

 

[Khatsalano]

Sometimes, the car will do a weird swerve right or left within the lane for no detectable reason to the human driver ... that is scary. Especially on CA-152 E today when it swerved right within the lane by itself, then it did the red-hands/beeping freakout because it caused itself to run into the next lane. Yes, the sun was lower in the morning hours, but this is not excusable, even for beta. It's a safety issue ... my hands were on the wheel and I had to rescue, but still scary.

- K

 

[Discoducky]

I spent sometime this weekend with the 2.7.7 (I think) and it wouldn't change lanes on I-90 when the lane dividers were *only* botts dots (no lines, but just those round white bumps).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botts'_dots

Anyone have luck with auto lane changing with no lines, but just botts dots?

 

[kirkbauer]

Two situations I have found, both of which should be obvious but who knows...

1) You aren't supposed to be using it on surface streets, but if you are be careful going through intersections, especially if you aren't following another vehicle and/or if it is a large intersection and you are going slow (longer time with no lines to follow) and/or if the lanes shift on the other end of the intersection.

2) If traffic is stopped in say the left lane, and you are driving in the right lane, and the road is curving to the left, there may be somebody stopped in the right lane but AP might not know that soon enough as its view is being blocked by the left lane's traffic.

 

[Papafox]

I spent sometime this weekend with the 2.7.7 (I think) and it wouldn't change lanes on I-90 when the lane dividers were *only* botts dots (no lines, but just those round white bumps).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botts'_dots

Anyone have luck with auto lane changing with no lines, but just botts dots?

In Hawaii, many of the lane markers are the white dots, rather than painted lines, and AutoSteer is reported to not do nearly as well with them as painted lines. For the next release of the autopilot, Elon Musk tweeted that autopilot 1.01 coming soon with ... "better lane holding on poor roads". Let's hope that the Botts'_dots are considered in this upgrade.

Discoducky, let me check with a friend in Hawaii and get back with you (my autopilot car is on the mainland at present).

 

[Papafox]

...

2) If traffic is stopped in say the left lane, and you are driving in the right lane, and the road is curving to the left, there may be somebody stopped in the right lane but AP might not know that soon enough as its view is being blocked by the left lane's traffic.

kirkbauer, thanks for the heads up. Can you give some additional details?