Anti-Tesla Gibberish

[PeterK]

Weiss/United economics taking another shot with a rehash of the same article: http://seekingalpha.com/article/1430161-in-summary-the-tesla-model-s-is-a-dirty-car
This is his "dumbed down" version.

Among many other challengeable points, sn't he double-counting vampire load? Wouldn't it be included in lifetime kwh/mi?

 

[brianstorms]

Today out of curiosity I emailed an old friend who is involved with an automotive publication, which I won't mention here. Anyway, he knows and lives and breathes cars and the car industry all day long. I'd consider him an industry expert. I asked him what he thought of Tesla Motors. His reply:

"if you want to sh*tcan 50% of your money on a good science experiment go for it . . . . they will be acquired or gone within 24 months . . . . fisker was the first to drop . . . the car is the best electric yet but until a revolutionary battery comes along, it's just a cool try years too early . . . "

I guess he took the blue pill. Apparently all of his competitor publications raving about the Model S are not sufficient to convince him maybe, just maybe, Tesla is The One.

 

[ggies07]

Today out of curiosity I emailed an old friend who is involved with an automotive publication, which I won't mention here. Anyway, he knows and lives and breathes cars and the car industry all day long. I'd consider him an industry expert. I asked him what he thought of Tesla Motors. His reply:

"if you want to sh*tcan 50% of your money on a good science experiment go for it . . . . they will be acquired or gone within 24 months . . . . fisker was the first to drop . . . the car is the best electric yet but until a revolutionary battery comes along, it's just a cool try years too early . . . "

I guess he took the blue pill. Apparently all of his competitor publications raving about the Model S are not sufficient to convince him maybe, just maybe, Tesla is The One.

Hahaha. Sucks to be him. Poor soul.

 

[Citizen-T]

I'm not sure whether or not anyone has posted this yet, but man, was this hilarious.

Haters Scrambling To Show Their Love For Tesla

 

[SebastianR]

I'm not sure whether or not anyone has posted this yet, but man, was this hilarious.

Haters Scrambling To Show Their Love For Tesla

On the one hand, it's hilarious. On the other hand it is a few minutes of time I will never get back in life.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Among many other challengeable points, sn't he double-counting vampire load? Wouldn't it be included in lifetime kwh/mi?

He is double counting. He counts 'Vampire Load' and 'Charging Inefficiencies' separately. While these losses are conceptually distinct, in practice when people measure vampire load, they use a wall meter to measure the actual kwhs taken from the grid to charge the car, and then subtract the kwh used to drive the car as displayed in the trip meter. So when people on the forum measure Vampire Load using a dedicated wall meter, they are already including losses due to charging.

He is also using data on actual lifetime wh/mile data that is heavily weighted toward winter driving. The wh/mile average is heavily dependent on temperature as we all know and I would be very surprised the averages over an entire year are not much lower that those currently reported in the lifetime wh/mile thread.

 

[gregincal]

He is double counting. He counts 'Vampire Load' and 'Charging Inefficiencies' separately. While these losses are conceptually distinct, in practice when people measure vampire load, they use a wall meter to measure the actual kwhs taken from the grid to charge the car, and then subtract the kwh used to drive the car as displayed in the trip meter. So when people on the forum measure Vampire Load using a dedicated wall meter, they are already including losses due to charging.

He is also using data on actual lifetime wh/mile data that is heavily weighted toward winter driving. The wh/mile average is heavily dependent on temperature as we all know and I would be very surprised the averages over an entire year are not much lower that those currently reported in the lifetime wh/mile thread.

Yep, and then taking those inflated number to calculate total generation emissions and comparing them to just tailpipe emissions (not counting refining emissions) based on EPA mileage rather than real world mileage of comparison cars. I'll also point out that using national generation averages is arguable as well, since Tesla sales are concentrated in non-coal burning California.

 

[JRP3]

To be accurate CA still imports coal power from out of state, quite a bit in LA I believe.

 

[gregincal]

To be accurate CA still imports coal power from out of state, quite a bit in LA I believe.

I wasn't aware of that. PG&E (which covers most of California) has 0% energy from coal in it's mix. Looking, it appears Southern California Edison has 7% coal.

 

[Robert.Boston]

I wasn't aware of that. PG&E (which covers most of California) has 0% energy from coal in it's mix. Looking, it appears Southern California Edison has 7% coal.

And LADWP has even more.

 

[gregincal]

And LADWP has even more.

Still, though. I bet a weighted average of the coal percentage used to charge Model S cars is well below the national average.

 

[gregincal]

Another classic article on Seeking Alpha:

Tesla's Glory Days Will Be Few As Bigger Competitors Are Already Catching Up

Some choice quotes:

"Tesla's own existence and success is enough proof that this is a market with no barriers of entry."
Yes, because if they can do it after 10 years of research and several patents, it must be easy.

"Furthermore, Tesla's competitors are bigger, better funded and two of them (Daimler and Toyota) have even enlisted Tesla through equity stakes to help them catch up!"
Yes, because it's so easy Mercedes and Toyota have chosen to pay Tesla for drivetrains instead of building them themselves.

"remember what happened to Apple (AAPL) when Samsung (SSNLF.PK) came into play"
Yes, when Apple announced the iPhone and the stock spiked to 92 everybody said it would be copied before Apple even released it. Let Apple's current stock price of 440 and the fact that they're now only the second largest US company by market cap instead of the largest be a dire warning to you, Tesla.

 

[brianstorms]

Saw that this morning and stopped reading pretty early into the article. The links on Yahoo! Finance's page for TSLA are almost always SeekingAlpha and MotleyFool and after clicking on a few of them one realizes one's been had. They're useless reading most of the time. I get a lot more out of this forum than most "news" sites which are actually thin content monetization schemes

 

[AudubonB]

More from that "Glory Days" article; on the section regarding range:
"...If you are going up a hill and constantly pressing the gas pedal without allowing for any regeneration...."

What a revelation! NOW I know where on the road to regenerate!

 

[ggr]

I like how it mentions that the Ford Focus Electric is about to hit the market and will eat Tesla's lunch... it's been available for about a year.

 

[jcstp]

Is the Tesla Model S Green? | Watts Up With That?

is this been here already?

 

[JRP3]

It's just a rehash of the same article that Weiss has posted elsewhere.

 

[AWDtsla]

Is the Tesla Model S Green? | Watts Up With That?

is this been here already?

Compares CO2 per miles driven to supposedly total effective CO2 of a Tesla from birth to death. Only an idiot would read this and agree with it (not that there is a shortage of those)

Further than that I decided that I should know how much energy the battery did take the create. According to this study, 14% of life-cycle energy use goes to building the car, and 2% goes to building the battery. http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/B/855.PDF

Lifetime CO2 approaches zero as vehicle manufacturing and battery charging goes solar, regardless of efficiencies. Gibberish indeed.

 

[JRP3]

That paper uses a small PHEV battery weighing 75kg, not exactly a Tesla pack.

 

[AWDtsla]

That paper uses a small PHEV battery weighing 75kg, not exactly a Tesla pack.

Fortunately we know arithmetic.