Oh please, you take the turnpike every day if you go under 100mph you will get run off the road!
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Air Suspension no longer lowers at highway speeds (FW update v5.8)
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Oh please, you take the turnpike every day if you go under 100mph you will get run off the road!
I'm confident you'll get reimbursed in January.
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I believe this is incorrect. In an ICE, one might be considering legal action to get reimbursement for a removed feature that was paid for. What's different with Tesla? We've given them some leash and they've run with it.
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I disagree with this argument. Do you hear people claiming that the car doesn't have the drag coefficient that's advertised? No.
Just put out the numbers with phrasing along the lines of "our wind tunnel and closed course analysis shows...." with the standard YMMV disclaimers and you won't have a problem.
It doesn't seem complicated to me at all.
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Note that there is a game at play here. It's stuff like that that makes "Windows 8" not "version 8".
While I agree with most of your post Flasherz, I'd have to agree with brianman on the last part. As so many tout when praising Tesla, traditional ICEs don't get SW updates like we do, so chances are, we wouldn't have lost something we originally had in the first place.
I agree with your right to use your political capital with Tesla how you wish. Note that I'm not saying you don't have a right to pressure Tesla, but rather that every-other-day posts complaining about it is probably unproductive. I've found that there are more productive ways to influence a company than continuing to scream on a daily basis. That's your prerogative.
For what it's worth, I don't continue to post my position on an every-other-day basis, I simply responded to those who would respond to me telling me that I "don't get it", and that I can't possibly understand just how important it is that the car lowers by 0.75" at speeds > 55 mph, and that despite the CEO's promises, I should complain every single day because a deadline was missed (*gasp* Tesla miss a deadline?). I've chosen to wait until the next feature release comes out, and I think my blood pressure is a bit better for it. The best of luck to you.
The following paragraph from "Nuts!", the story of Southwest Airlines, comes to mind:
Tesla needs to do what it must do to balance all factors, including customer satisfaction, building the customer base, meeting margin targets, and changing the world in a regulatory environment.
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And you'd have to come in with a credible argument about the contributing value of that particular feature on the car. I'd imagine a $29.95 certificate for a free oil change might be your outcome, with the lawyers getting about 40% of the settlement dollars (some restrictions apply, 33% in some states).
For what it's worth, I don't continue to post my position on an every-other-day basis, I simply responded to those who would respond to me telling me that I "don't get it", and that I can't possibly understand just how important it is that the car lowers by 0.75" at speeds > 55 mph, and that despite the CEO's promises, I should complain every single day because a deadline was missed (*gasp* Tesla miss a deadline?). I've chosen to wait until the next feature release comes out, and I think my blood pressure is a bit better for it. The best of luck to you.
The following paragraph from "Nuts!", the story of Southwest Airlines, comes to mind:
Tesla needs to do what it must do to balance all factors, including customer satisfaction, building the customer base, meeting margin targets, and changing the world in a regulatory environment.
- - - Updated - - -
And you'd have to come in with a credible argument about the contributing value of that particular feature on the car. I'd imagine a $29.95 certificate for a free oil change might be your outcome, with the lawyers getting about 40% of the settlement dollars (some restrictions apply, 33% in some states).
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Nope, for safety recalls, it's entirely possible for the automaker to remove features. For example, the heated washer nozzles were disabled for this recall:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners...Category=R&searchCriteria.nhtsa_ids=10V240000
What Tesla is doing (assuming the update never comes to add it back) is exactly the same. And the chances of getting any compensation back is slim even if a lawsuit is filed (the lawyer will get most of it, the consumer gets peanuts).
Fair enough, but there's no safety recall here, just what seems like a PR move. In any case, it's not like it's FORCED on you (though I guess maybe some dealerships WOULD force it when you come in for service)
It is entirely unfair to keep speaking about this as if it has anything to do with safety. Elon has stated that this has nothing to do with safety. The NHTSA has stated that the removal of lowering of the car is irrelevant to them at this time. There has been no recall.
New firmware is forced on you if you have certain parts repaired/replaced. That's official Tesla policy at the moment.
Not sure if it has been mentioned before...no, wait! I believe it HAS...Tesla did not revoke "Smart" air for safety reasons so it cannot be "exactly the same." I KNOW this is sounding somewhat, what was the word used?...oh yeah incessant... but I just can't help it when the same mistakes are made...uhhh...incessantly.
Yes, I know. I was referring to service in an ICE (i.e. Tesla updates force you to lose the auto lowering, but the nozzle recall would only have happened if you took your car in and they forced you to take it).
If it was about safety they probably wouldn't be adding to the next firmware the ability to run in Low mode all the time. which they have stated they are adding + hopefully high all the time for snow. not that we really have any :frown:
3 wheel motion maybe
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I got the charger recall mixed with this update. But at any rate, it shows other automakers have removed features from their cars even after sale.
And while the removal was not a recall, it was definitely related to the NHTSA investigation (in terms of reducing the risk of hitting debris). There was no other reason to remove it.
Mobster
Member
1. Agree. Folks keep mentioning "safety" then quote Elon's "commitment". Then mention the care needed "not to make things worse". Muddled. Just return feature as it was. Great car. No safety issue.
2. Flasherz - ok, there is redundancy in posting often - as you have often repeated in your posts. Good story about a $70 Southwest airlines ticket - customer lost and who cares if she is gone? WE Tesla owners provide a situation that saves the company a lot of money in advertising. At least once a week people I socialize with ask me to give them the sales talk....and I do. Best car (exotic or muscle) ever driven. Forums contain redundancy. Those of us who hammered Microsoft from a customers point of view FORCED major changes in Windows 8 that are still in play. (I consult with MS execs - some openly said "tell them to buy something else"....some ended up losing their jobs).
2. One basic truth (for me) that sticks in my head is the consistency of how company execs (from the global company I retired from to the companies I consult with) react to "survey" and "forum" information delivered to them. They were/are patient for the "numbers" stuff (% satisfied, % very satisfied blah blah) HOWEVER they wanted the "comment" "feedback" and "forum blog" write ups delivered IMMEDIATELY.
I think you're confusing my counsel on the period of feedback with giving feedback at all. I agree with every point you've made about giving feedback, except an argument that people need to keep constant complaining going. Herb didn't write that customer off because of her feedback, he wrote her off because every single flight she took, she launched a litany of complaints repeating her past feedback to the company with threats to stop flying, etc... "Deal-breakers", if you will.
From what I've gathered from posts here, it doesn't sound like there is much waiting left, so perhaps we might spare-the-air here. Perhaps you won't be happy on the timing, but the rumored improved capability might make you happy.
From what I've gathered from posts here, it doesn't sound like there is much waiting left, so perhaps we might spare-the-air here. Perhaps you won't be happy on the timing, but the rumored improved capability might make you happy.
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I agree with this sentiment, FlasherZ. My concern is that Tesla takes note of the number of posts associated with their (IMO) boneheaded and definitely surreptitious removal of a feature so that they will never again make this kind of mistake. I hope that should they ever even consider this kind of move again someone will pop up and say, "Wait! The last time we did this kind of thing we got thousands of e-mail, telcons, and angry reactions on the fora. Perhaps we ought to rethink how we can best meet the needs of the company without alienating our customers in the process."I think you're confusing my counsel on the period of feedback with giving feedback at all. I agree with every point you've made about giving feedback, except an argument that people need to keep constant complaining going. Herb didn't write that customer off because of her feedback, he wrote her off because every single flight she took, she launched a litany of complaints repeating her past feedback to the company with threats to stop flying, etc... "Deal-breakers", if you will.
From what I've gathered from posts here, it doesn't sound like there is much waiting left, so perhaps we might spare-the-air here. Perhaps you won't be happy on the timing, but the rumored improved capability might make you happy.
Many people calling and emailing Tesla will have a much bigger impact that a smaller number posting the same complaint every day in a thread on TMC. That doesn't mean you don't have the right to post every day but as was said there it might not be as effective as you think. Imagine this is a political issue. What do you think is more effective, 100,000 constituents calling their congressional office twice and writing on an issue or 1,000 calling every day for a month? If course my numbers in he example are made up since we have no idea what percentage of owners are upset about this issue or even aware it exists.
I understand your point and agree with the sentiment. I hope others are doing as I have done and have made (and continue to make) their views known not just here, but also to the company directly. I am now on a first name basis with several Tesla folks. The Regional Technical rep and I now have a good relationship. He understands my frustration and I understand the constraints he is under. I hope I am not coming across as Mrs. Crabapple in FlasherZ's example. I am trying very hard NOT to be obnoxious and I am simply indicating how much I want the promises to come to fruition. Disappointments are confounded by empty and unmet promises and further still by a total lack of communication.
I don't think anyone is being obnoxious so sorry if it sounded that way. I think some people might have only been voicing their frustration here and not officially letting Tesla know so glad you have already done that.
Mobster
Member
FlasherZ... agree, very short wait "apparently".....from the posts here, AND from a flood of "inside information" I have received (man, you cannot believe the amount of "inside information" I get on the other legislative type issues I am involved in covering everything from gold bullion control to online poker to Tesla lockouts in states like our beloved New Jersey). Ironically, a very small percentage of the "forum logic" or inside information comes to fruition in the time period seemingly obvious.
On the "timing" point, my happiness is not important, nor is dangling new capabilities as excuses or incentives. I work PR and credibility issues with execs on a daily basis. As Tom Peters has said (In Search of Excellence) "Perception is EVERYTHING."
Tesla passes the smell test on a myriad of outstanding company practices. However, this issue tied in with the passionate "Mission Statement" is still on the desk of many analysts (financial, business, regulatory and press). My biggest challenge with clients is their handling of "damage control"- ignore customers and the mess will go away (Microsoft 8 - made things worse), confuse and confound customers with "added features" "rumors" etc. - makes things worse. Whether it makes me "happy" or not, IMHO for credibility, Tesla needs to either return the expensive paid for feature NOW as it was to it's more than faithful "enthusiasts" (as they refer to us), or issue another "Mission Statement" level press release (appropriate for publicly traded companies versus rumors and inside information) which recants the position and takes a new position on the safety situation. Not complicated.
On the "timing" point, my happiness is not important, nor is dangling new capabilities as excuses or incentives. I work PR and credibility issues with execs on a daily basis. As Tom Peters has said (In Search of Excellence) "Perception is EVERYTHING."
Tesla passes the smell test on a myriad of outstanding company practices. However, this issue tied in with the passionate "Mission Statement" is still on the desk of many analysts (financial, business, regulatory and press). My biggest challenge with clients is their handling of "damage control"- ignore customers and the mess will go away (Microsoft 8 - made things worse), confuse and confound customers with "added features" "rumors" etc. - makes things worse. Whether it makes me "happy" or not, IMHO for credibility, Tesla needs to either return the expensive paid for feature NOW as it was to it's more than faithful "enthusiasts" (as they refer to us), or issue another "Mission Statement" level press release (appropriate for publicly traded companies versus rumors and inside information) which recants the position and takes a new position on the safety situation. Not complicated.
