BMW has a major advantage in already have these systems implemented in other cars. Tesla doesn't. If Tesla had waited until the Model S was 'perfect' with every feature a car in its price range normally has (regardless of if they are really useful or needed) then we'd still be waiting for the first delivery. They said they are working on it and we have no other information yet to doubt that at this point.
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Elctrek
Darth Voltage
agreed... I am sure they will incorporate features like these when they know they will work properly and not before.
Raffy.Roma
Rome (Italy)
To me it is quite surprising that this is missing.
What a car manufacturer normally do is work together with one of the safety systems suppliers like Bosch, Autoliv, etc. during the development of the car. That way it will be available at launch and the car manufacturer doesn't have to re-invent it themselves.
Tesla seems to have missed that part or chosen to do it themselves instead. Why is a mystery to me.
What a car manufacturer normally do is work together with one of the safety systems suppliers like Bosch, Autoliv, etc. during the development of the car. That way it will be available at launch and the car manufacturer doesn't have to re-invent it themselves.
Tesla seems to have missed that part or chosen to do it themselves instead. Why is a mystery to me.
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
Exactly. My aviation career spanned almost everything available from the old stuff where your hands ere connected directly to a flight control surface all the way to the highest level of automation available. I remember the evolution of Zero/Zero landings (no ceiling and no visibility) and how skeptical we all were at first. Then the Airbus 310 came along in the early '80's and the airplane flew approaches and landings better than any pilot. I don't think as quickly, or as accurately as I did 30 years ago. I've never thought as quickly, or accurately as a computer. I welcome any and all systems that make my driving safer.
I presume they did that because:
1) they were building a very safe car
2) they view software as a core competency
3) they want an autopilot system
Buying in a current solution from a 3rd party wouldn't be of much help.
Except that there are hints that Tesla is going to partner with Mobileye. Obviously this won't be a simple add-on, this will be a more holistic solution, but it is still a 3rd party.
But studies have found that the reaction time is about a second, and the subjects of the study were expecting a random indicator that they would need to slam on the brakes. Granted, the one second was the time for the foot to reach the brake pedal, but I don't think the Tesla would have come close to slowing down enough. That would be downright dangerous if drivers could take their foot off the accelerator and the car could slow down so fast that the seat belt needed to tighten, even in the absence of a hazard. I also never would have made it past a test drive had that happened. By the way, the car I was talking about was a 2007 Infiniti M45.
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And I like the fact that Tesla has something even better than a CD player, but I would be asking that question if Tesla had no sound system. It's not the same. Nobody is talking about relying on those systems. I don't plan to approach other vehicles without attempting to stop the car, expecting it to do so on its own. People will still try to slam on their brakes as soon as is humanly possible. People will "rely" on the safety features in the same sense that I will rely on the brakes working when I step on them or the steering working when I turn it. It's possible for two separate and distinct cameras to miss something and for the sensor behind the grille to miss something too. But it's a backup system that pays for itself compared to insurance premiums. It's a system that nobody expects to rely on, but when a system is more likely to be able to sense an oncoming accident than I am, I want it.
Compare the rate of accidents among vehicles with no such safety features to ones with it. There are no records for the non-accidents since there are no police reports. All we have to go by are the overall accident rates being lower than for peer vehicles. Haven't you ever seen a vehicle without active safety features all smashed up by the side of the road? What do you think those drivers relied on? It didn't work. Where are the throngs of people with vehicles with active safety features who wish they weren't there "because you can't rely on them"?
If the Model S didn't have the camera, I can guarantee you that there would be people posting that it isn't needed and that it's a good thing that it isn't there. I've seen other forums where people made that argument about their cars, and also claimed that they wouldn't want to pay the extra money for one. If a particular model of cars sold 30,000 vehicles and a single wrongful death lawsuit brought in $50 million dollars, which is a realistic number, then you have to concede that it's realistic to expect the average insurance premium to go up by a significant amount, since insurance premiums are based on how much is paid out. For cars that are sold in higher numbers, the number of fatalities will be proportionally higher. So the arguments I hear in other forums don't show added cost over the life of a vehicle, but a probable decrease.
So why is it that nobody here is arguing that rear cameras are unnecessary since the car has good visibility, backup sensors for a fraction of a percent of the overall car cost, and people can look over their shoulders? Why isn't anybody here pointing out a single feature that's unnecessary that you wouldn't pay to add if it hadn't been there? Maybe I don't need a screen to show me what percent my sun roof is open because I can look up. It seems to be coming down to "I own this car, everything is right about it, and nothing is missing." The problem with that argument is that it's self contradictory. It includes the notion that it's good to have a car that can add features with wireless downloads.
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Optional is fine with me, and once people see the discount in their insurance from having it, they can decide for themselves.
For Tesla, it comes down to how much they can put on the vehicle and in what order, rather than an indefinite delay in release until they have everything. They also have to ask how it affects sales. Had the feature been there, I would have gone out and bought the car. When I found myself needing a car anyway because mine was totaled, I had to weigh what was missing in the Tesla compared to what it offered that other vehicles don't. Tesla won out, but it wasn't compelling enough to keep me from waiting to see what the next model brought to the table when I didn't have a more immediate need. For now, the strength is that having a waiting list means no lost sales. But that's a poor long term strategy. Once they ramp up production to meet demand, they will need growth and that requires increasing the types of customers who are interested. Also, "immediate need" means different things to different people, and a waiting list rules out somebody in my position but who doesn't have an unused minivan sitting in the driveway that's more that good enough for a several month wait.
NigelM
Recovering Member
smsprague
Member
I added MobilEye 560 works great and looks like it came from the factory. No adaptive cruise but it does:
Auto high beam
Lane departure
Collision warning
Cuts cruise off when you get to close to another car
Pedestrian warning
Speeding warning - you can set the miles over the limit that it warns
Auto high beam
Lane departure
Collision warning
Cuts cruise off when you get to close to another car
Pedestrian warning
Speeding warning - you can set the miles over the limit that it warns
tdelta1000
Active Member
TM will have to raise the cost of the Model S line with the addition of safety features so it would be nice to have new feature but it would suck if the "S" goes up 5 to 10k in price.
smsprague
Member
If VW can install basic version for around 300€, even more advanced system shouldnt be expensive (3K+). It also doesnt need to be mandatory (for now) just make it available as an option.
Count me in w/the crowd that'd like to see as many safety options for the S as possible: if Volvo, Mercedes S-class, & a Tesla could have a baby, I'd adopt it. With any safety system, I think at the end of the day you're paying for peace of mind and redundancy. Here in Victoria we get loads of rain and ninja cyclists at night who enjoy dressing in black skinny jeans and riding their fixies w/o lights but w/their ear buds in. You can make the argument that the onus is on the ninja hipster cyclists to be more responsible, and you'd be right, but w/o safety features like cyclist detection you're still more likely to hit them even while being "right" in a moral sense.
Anyhow, an invariable part of my Tesla Porn-ing (read: twiddling the Design Studio while ruing my bank balance) is thinking how to incorporate 3rd party or after-market safety goodies post-purchase, like MobileEye or this possibly sketchy thing from Protruly:
Car Night Vision System-Protruly Electronics/Expert and Manufacturer of Night Vision System
. Anyone ever heard of these guys?
A couple of other neat safety bits I'd like to see TM add to the options possibilities is something like Night View Assist (night vision - yeah!!: Mercedes-Benz TechCenter: Night View Assist Plus) and camera(s?) at the front of the car that capable of seeing peripherally, so you can 'peak' side-to-side without pulling excessively into a road you want to turn onto. I think this is or used to be an option on Volvos, though I'm not sure if it got discontinued for whatever reason (...maybe too hard to keep lenses clean).
Anyhow, an invariable part of my Tesla Porn-ing (read: twiddling the Design Studio while ruing my bank balance) is thinking how to incorporate 3rd party or after-market safety goodies post-purchase, like MobileEye or this possibly sketchy thing from Protruly:
Car Night Vision System-Protruly Electronics/Expert and Manufacturer of Night Vision System
. Anyone ever heard of these guys?
A couple of other neat safety bits I'd like to see TM add to the options possibilities is something like Night View Assist (night vision - yeah!!: Mercedes-Benz TechCenter: Night View Assist Plus) and camera(s?) at the front of the car that capable of seeing peripherally, so you can 'peak' side-to-side without pulling excessively into a road you want to turn onto. I think this is or used to be an option on Volvos, though I'm not sure if it got discontinued for whatever reason (...maybe too hard to keep lenses clean).
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