60 kWh Model Production Delayed

[sublimaze1]

Yeah, I don't care either way either. Don't mean to take this thread off-topic. So, let's stick to the 60 kWh delay then...

Back on topic, but with this in mind, I would think that a battery is a big deal (kinda like active air suspension) and that if you are a 60kWh order, then I would think that your "earlier to be delivered" R with a 60 would take a back seat to a "later to be delivered" R or P with an 85. That would simply be based on availability and the desire for Tesla to push more cars out quicker. They (almost certainly) are not going to delay a car because of a number, if the parts are all assembled and the vehicle is burned in, n'est ce pas?

 

[doug]

Do we even know yet how the 60 kWh batteries are packaged? Are they fewer of the cells in the 85 kWh packs, or are they more of the cells in the 40 kWh packs (assuming those are different cells)?

Also, the communication related to the Supercharging hardware in the 60 kWh pack cars, implied to me that some of the 60 kWh packs had already entered production since they supposedly already had the hardware installed.

 

[miemrich]

@CEILIDH:

Actually, I'm trading a 2011 Kia Forte hatchback for a Signature Model S. Although I must confess that I still have a 2006 BMW 750Li in my garage for long distance trips.

 

[timdorr]

Do we even know yet how the 60 kWh batteries are packaged? Are they fewer of the cells in the 85 kWh packs, or are they more of the cells in the 40 kWh packs (assuming those are different cells)?

My wild-ass guess is that, due to weight distribution, they're using different cells and not just filling them up in a different arrangement.

 

[aviators99]

You keep saying R's come first, but I thought they were simply prioritized among the earliest Ps... interleaved. Where was this 'R's will be first' documented? I don't really care either way, and it wont affect me either way... just wondering.

I think we've gone through this like 100 times. The Rs come before the Ps. It's been confirmed over and over again, not only via Tesla people (who have been known to be wrong), but also via mathematics (which is always known to be right).

 

[shokunin]

not surprised at all.. the 60kw were originally, like months ago had "November" as their production date. When they say November, since they are Silicon Valley company, that means like November 30-31st. Since everything has been pushed back, it's not surprising to hear that we may not see many or any deliveries of the 60kw pack by the end of the year.

Does Tesla need to get 60kw battery EPA range-tested before they can sell the car?

 

[Ceilidh]

@CEILIDH:

Actually, I'm trading a 2011 Kia Forte hatchback for a Signature Model S. Although I must confess that I still have a 2006 BMW 750Li in my garage for long distance trips.

Mine's a 2005 Sportage.

At ~ 60K mi the engine actually barfed a rod due to a manufacturing defect (I take good car of my cars. That engine always had synthetic oil changes, etc, etc). So I got an 80% engine rebuild at 60K mi.

After that experience, I have been anxiously awaiting the car I reserved 3 1/2 years ago....

Good to hear I'm not the only Kia trade up Our other car is a minivan. If the Model S didn't have the jumpseat option it would have been a no-go for us. I'm still at the Soccer Carpool stage of life. Now when is Tesla going to announce their AWD Starship Enterprise minivan model for the masses? The X is tempting though... although I'm afraid it may take some time to pay off the S.

Cheers.

 

[Liz G]

So I'm a 60KW P2359

Wonder how many there are in front of me? Maybe I'll get lucky and almost everyone in front will have ordered an 85KW and I'll be in one of the first groups of 60KWs produced.

Please nobody ruin my fantasy!That's all I've got, plus the possibility of a large number of cancellations, to allow me the dream of getting my car this year.

 

[strider]

Do we even know yet how the 60 kWh batteries are packaged? Are they fewer of the cells in the 85 kWh packs, or are they more of the cells in the 40 kWh packs (assuming those are different cells)?

From memory, the 60kWh packs are the same cells as the Roadster and the tray is full. 40kWh are the same cells as the Roadster w/ fewer of them and ballast added so Tesla wouldn't have to crash-test them separately. 85kWh is a new chemistry and the tray is full.

 

[Iz]

Wonder how many there are in front of me? Maybe I'll get lucky and almost everyone in front will have ordered an 85KW and I'll be in one of the first groups of 60KWs produced.

There may be a few in front. Am 60kWh and P1431. I reserved in Oct 2009.

 

[qwk]

From memory, the 60kWh packs are the same cells as the Roadster and the tray is full. 40kWh are the same cells as the Roadster w/ fewer of them and ballast added so Tesla wouldn't have to crash-test them separately. 85kWh is a new chemistry and the tray is full.

This is very outdated info though. Things could have changed. The biggest clue will be when tesla releases the vehicle weight for the cars with the smaller packs.

 

[Discoducky]

If Obama loses I might beg to upgrade to 85kWh as it might only be a $2500 hit since the $7500 could be removed by a Rombie apocalypse Whedon On Romney - YouTube

 

[timdorr]

If Obama loses I might beg to upgrade to 85kWh as it might only be a $2500 hit since the $7500 could be removed by a Rombie apocalypse Whedon On Romney - YouTube

There is a 79% (and growing) chance that Obama is going to win: Election Forecasts - FiveThirtyEight Blog - NYTimes.com I think the tax credit is safe.

Also, isn't that tax credit renewed by Congress? There's a 91.4% chance we're going to have a Democrat majority, so it's looking really good for 2013.

 

[Tommy]

Does every thread have to have political references? Can we give it a rest already?

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I sent an email to ownership@ and a couple of specific ownership advocates asking about the delay. No response yet.

Caution: #firstworldproblems ahead:

It's been a high tax basis year for me and my wife (deep in AMT territory) so, the $7,500 would go a long way in avoiding paying out a lot more to Uncle Sam; if I can get the car and credit this year, that is.

I crunched the numbers on the Tesla side and it looks like I'll have to commit about $9,400 more, all said and done, to the purchase if I switch to 85 kWh and drop leather in favor of textile. Assuming that an MVPA change at this stage (if allowed; I asked on the email that I'm waiting for a response on) and textile seats don't introduce a delay of their own, I'm seriously considering switching to 85 now.

The fact that we may save a decent chunk of that $9,400 in the form of taxes that we don't have to pay (when compared to using the credit for the 2013 tax year which appears to be 'less rewarding' than 2012 has been for us) has my wife convinced too.

Anyone else on the 2012+60kWh bubble going through this thought process now?!

 

[ckessel]

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, the tax credits wouldn't help you as far as taxable income. It's a credit on tax burden rather than a deduction against taxable income.

In other words, you'll get the same $7500 this year or next as long as you pay at least $7500 in taxes. It's nicer having money earlier than later, but there isn't any benefit beyond that. If you know you're getting it next year, you can intentionally under withhold federal tax starting on January 1st to pocket that $7500 as early as possible in 2013.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Duh... yes, ckessel, I was making the mistake of thinking of it as a deduction and a credit in the same breath! You are right; all the noise apart, it's $7,500 that I'll have in hand a full year earlier for what that's worth.

I guess I'm still trying hard to justify a switch to 85 and to get that car sooner at all costs

 

[JakeP]

Come to the dark side, GG!

 

[kevincwelch]

My Kia that I bought on my residency budget will last until mid November without an expensive trip to the shop, but not until February (you kinda need brakes).

Ahhhhh, the old "when I was a resident excuse..."

Unless you're a fellow, drop some of that attending coin on the repairs.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Come to the dark side, GG!

Well, I went ahead and called Walter at Tesla. He heard me out and did confirm that the 'delay' is really the overall 4-6 week push out that GeorgeB mentioned as part of the slow production rampup. So, yes, it doesn't have to do with the 60 pack per se but, effectively, they are entering production upto 6 weeks after they were originally scheduled to have - very much what Ceilidh said earlier.

Now, I asked where exactly that leaves me in terms of delivery timeframe. I was told that, as per what they can see as of today, I'm right on the bubble for 2012! Then, I asked about switching to 85 and if that'd make a significant difference to this timeframe; Walter had to check with the folks doing the production batching and order push to the factory and called me back - he said that, best case scenario, I may get it 3 weeks earlier but, it could be as close as 1 week! So, I'd effectively still be on the bubble!

Given no obvious monetary gain from all this, I decided to let sleeping dogs lie. 60 and most likely early Jan 2013 for me...