202X Roadster Delay Legal Action?

[ToddHaushalter]

I paid $250,000 a little over 6 years ago to the day, for a 2020 Roadster Founder's Series reservation. Since order confirmation, I have literally never heard from Tesla -- even by email, and I only have a reservation confirmation number on their website. I've tried contacting them numerous times through the years and on the phone they say "we have no info on the Roadster" and online I get no replies. Here are the simple questions I posed in one email to them.

We all understand a bit of delay due to covid, supply chain issues, etc. but it is many years, and now they are literally shipping the Cyber Truck before the Roadster so I wonder if they even have the tech to build the car at the advertised specs?

I think Tesla is an amazing American company and I am a big fan. I stayed strong with my deposit during talk of their bankruptcy risk, which was hard. 2020 came and I anxiously awaited a call to configure my vehicle but that call never came, and now we are almost in 2024. I am certainly fortunate to be able to afford such a dream car, but it was a stretch to make this purchase and it is the biggest (non-home) purchase I have ever made. This is a LOT of money for me and Tesla has never even told me there is a delay -- I am reduced to reading message boards and tweets, which is so disheartening and concerning with this much money at risk.

Below is an excerpt from my reservation terms and conditions. You can see there is a clear incentive to not lose your place in line by requesting a refund and my place in line would be early since I ordered in November 2017 like so many did with the excitement around the Roadster.

Here below you can also see that the T&C does NOT guarantee the price, but all of their advertising at the time did suggest $250,000 was the purchase price and many on this board have suggested they will honour the price, but will they? Does anyone have an opinion on this? The opportunity cost of money for the last 6 years has been very high.

Here below you can see the old website communication (left) and the newer communication (right) and the old version says "Base Price" and "Founders Series Price" very clearly as a separate figure from "Reservation". This suggests Tesla intended the $250,000 reservation is the price of the car, but is it?

I know there are others in this situation and every day you consider pulling your reservation as many have done, but there is no way to make an informed decision as tomorrow may be the day they call you to configure your new Roadster, and is the price locked in? I have never sued anyone and feel the courts are over-used, but I feel out of options. Is there not a legal duty of care to communicate that you will be 3-4+ years late, or at least sending one email in 6 years to give any sort of update? My money has deteriorated in value and I don't even know if Tesla will honor the price shown above. Are there others in this same situation and does anyone know if there is an option to use the legal system to get Tesla's attention? I don't want my money back, I want the car, but if they don't have the technology to build it to the above specs then I want to know this too. I just want to be able to make an informed decision and I am sure others feel the same way. Does anyone have any ideas as to what options we have, or care to team up with me on this?

Here is what Chat GPT had to say:

 

[HankLloydRight]

The most you'd get by suing them is your deposit back, unless you can prove any realized damages beyond that. It's probably covered in the T&C and in addition, there's probably a mediation/arbitration clause, so you can't even sue.

And since you can just request 100% of your deposit back, what's the point in a lawsuit?

edit: Also, you did NOT pay $200k "over the base model" for the Founders Series. You paid $50k over the base model price of $200k. But you had to pay the entire $250k up front to reserve one of the 1000 Founders Series cars.

 

[shahryaran]

Blame Elon.
The Roadster had initiated at the time of announcement with a complete team of engineers and developers. In fact, the Roadster and the model 3 were designed at the same time and share the same battery platform but with different battery and motor technology.

Elon though Cybertruck is better investment because Tesla needed to compete in the truck category.

Rimac came out with a sub 2s Nevera a year after Tesla announcement. But it costs 2.4M so the Roadster still has a chance of winning the market. Then Model S refresh came out and stole the 1.9s 0-60 of the Roadster. So Elon decided that Tesla would have better chance of winning the truck people rather than the hypercar people.

Who knows?!
Maybe those 5 engineers are still working on the Roadster at the very back room with one whiteboard.

The problem is that Elon was super hyped at the time, and announced big numbers. Now his engineers had to come up with 600 miles of range!

Given the look and theme of Cybertruck, Tesla should have waited on the Cybertruck for the future and finished and released the Roadster. This way the general automotive industry design had caught up and then the Cybertruck release wouldn't be much alien to public. And you would have your Roadster finished and delivered.

I know you love Tesla, but Tesla holding this much money for this long and invest on it is kind of unethical. Even an apology Email would have been nice.

If you look at all Tesla's product, you'll see that the M3P is the best performance for the money paid. So get your money back and get one.

If you think about it, M3P in some ways is actually the Roadster.

 

[Unclepaul]

Nice First World problem you have.

Super frustrating to want this car so much you paid in full, hoping to accellerate it's delivery.

Nobody knows for sure why it has been delayed, but I believe Elon wants to deliver it as much as you want to take delivery. They whole world has been pretty screwey since the original announcements. Most companies are trying to produce vehicles that comply with various Countries new legal ICE restrictions and are eligible for tax credits.

The Cybertruck has almost 2 Million reservations. It is the hot spot of the market that Tesla has targeted. The market for uber high performance two door sports cars is relative miniscule in comparison.

Imagine the Board of Directors plus reality has put the limited production New Roadster on the back burner.

The technology most likely already exhists to make the New Roadster, but it would take tremendous resources to bring it to market.

Lawsuit would be very unproductive at this time. You pretty much have two options. Suck it up and wait patiently for this dream to become a reality, or ask for your money back and lose your place in line. Perhaps another option would be to change your reservation from Founders Edition to a base model. That would rebuild your bank account, but at the risk of losing what you really want.

Thousands of individuals have pre-ordered long lead time vehicles from Tesla. I waited over a year for each of my 3 Model Xs. You never know for sure when the cars will come down the line, and faith is often tested. These cars can be life altering, but the wait can be Ego shattering.

 

[HankLloydRight]

If you think about it, M3P in some ways is actually the Roadster.

This is a joke, right?

 

[HankLloydRight]

Given the look and theme of Cybertruck, Tesla should have waited on the Cybertruck for the future and finished and released the Roadster.

Ummm yeah.no. As @Unclepaul mentioned, they have MILLIONS of reservations for CT -- and it's a mass market product.

The Roadster is a low volume, low production, niche product. If Tesla halted development on the CT to concentrate on the Roadster for a few years, they'd be effectively sinking themselves.

 

[snorp]

Roadster at least a year away. Get your refund and invest in a 5.5% CD and collect ~$1k/mo until it gets released.

You have already "lost" about $50k letting your money sit with Tesla. Stop the bleeding.

 

[HankLloydRight]

You have already "lost" about $50k letting your money sit with Tesla. Stop the bleeding.

Imagine if he bought TSLA instead?

edit: $250k of TSLA bought Dec 14,2017 would be worth $2.7m today.

 

[electrifyme]

They don't have the tech for 620 miles of range. With the current tech, that's stuffing two battery packs into the roadster. There just isn't any room. Elon shot from the hip and lost the bet on his engineers to make improvements in battery tech. Get ur money back.

 

[Ethan Ryczek]

This is a joke, right?

I certainly hope so

 

[ucmndd]

What are your damages? You voluntarily gave a company a quarter million dollars to deliver you a product in the future on an unspecified timeline. You could have asked for and received a refund at any time.

“It’s taking longer than I want it to” doesn’t count as damages.

 

[jpk195]

It sounds like you know this company well, so you probably already know that Tesla promises things it doesn’t know if it can deliver. FSD is the obvious example, but the Cybertruck specs are another recent one.

Whether to get the refund depends on things only you know and can decide, but unless you still really want this thing and would have serious regret if it actually ships in a few years I'd say take the money and move on with life.

 

[zoomer0056]

I paid $250,000 a little over 6 years ago to the day, for a 2020 Roadster Founder's Series reservation

Wow, you paid a quarter of a million dollars for a reservation on a nonexistent car six years ago. You're asking us if you should wait s little longer. This is within Elon time specs. He usually says, two ... six for sure.

A fool and his money .....
Like someone else posted, too bad you didn't buy TSLA stock instead.

 

[dsm363]

Signature Model S customers waited 3.5 years for a car when the company really had a chance of going out of business. I get the frustration but I think you should just get your money back. You’ve waited even longer. You might not get a founders edition, but you can easily buy a Roadster in two or three years if it does in production.

The opportunity cost has been high, but I can’t imagine you will reach any conclusion that will satisfy you. At most you would get your money back. Which can be accomplished without paying someone probably tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars just to try to get your $250,000 back.

 

[mborkow]

I’m stunned anyone would fork over 250k for a car that doesn’t exist. I am not sure why you’d become litigious at this point but that’s a venue where Musk will surely outclass you. He’s one of the most litigious people on the planet.

 

[af88]

I'm sorry but only an idiot at this point would not have already requested a refund.

Do as you wish but you are wasting your time. Telsa has crap QA and a number of other issues, but the one thing they didn't skimp on is Attorney's and their Legal department. The contract attorney's have made sure to cover the corporation for these issues all documented in the T&C's.

Request a refund and move on from tesla

 

[bobinfla]

Hi. I'm Bob. And I'm an idiot.

 

[mborkow]

Hi. I'm Bob. And I'm an idiot.

You must be an extremely successful idiot (or at least one with a lot of disposable cash) with a very forgiving significant other!

 

[GeorgeCostanza]

Hi. I'm Bob. And I'm an idiot.

Please, a little respect ...

 

[TGrinds]

I paid $250,000 a little over 6 years ago to the day, for a 2020 Roadster Founder's Series reservation. Since order confirmation, I have literally never heard from Tesla -- even by email, and I only have a reservation confirmation number on their website. I've tried contacting them numerous times through the years and on the phone they say "we have no info on the Roadster" and online I get no replies. Here are the simple questions I posed in one email to them.

View attachment 994584

We all understand a bit of delay due to covid, supply chain issues, etc. but it is many years, and now they are literally shipping the Cyber Truck before the Roadster so I wonder if they even have the tech to build the car at the advertised specs?

I think Tesla is an amazing American company and I am a big fan. I stayed strong with my deposit during talk of their bankruptcy risk, which was hard. 2020 came and I anxiously awaited a call to configure my vehicle but that call never came, and now we are almost in 2024. I am certainly fortunate to be able to afford such a dream car, but it was a stretch to make this purchase and it is the biggest (non-home) purchase I have ever made. This is a LOT of money for me and Tesla has never even told me there is a delay -- I am reduced to reading message boards and tweets, which is so disheartening and concerning with this much money at risk.

Below is an excerpt from my reservation terms and conditions. You can see there is a clear incentive to not lose your place in line by requesting a refund and my place in line would be early since I ordered in November 2017 like so many did with the excitement around the Roadster.
View attachment 994587

Here below you can also see that the T&C does NOT guarantee the price, but all of their advertising at the time did suggest $250,000 was the purchase price and many on this board have suggested they will honour the price, but will they? Does anyone have an opinion on this? The opportunity cost of money for the last 6 years has been very high.

View attachment 994588

Here below you can see the old website communication (left) and the newer communication (right) and the old version says "Base Price" and "Founders Series Price" very clearly as a separate figure from "Reservation". This suggests Tesla intended the $250,000 reservation is the price of the car, but is it?

View attachment 994591

I know there are others in this situation and every day you consider pulling your reservation as many have done, but there is no way to make an informed decision as tomorrow may be the day they call you to configure your new Roadster, and is the price locked in? I have never sued anyone and feel the courts are over-used, but I feel out of options. Is there not a legal duty of care to communicate that you will be 3-4+ years late, or at least sending one email in 6 years to give any sort of update? My money has deteriorated in value and I don't even know if Tesla will honor the price shown above. Are there others in this same situation and does anyone know if there is an option to use the legal system to get Tesla's attention? I don't want my money back, I want the car, but if they don't have the technology to build it to the above specs then I want to know this too. I just want to be able to make an informed decision and I am sure others feel the same way. Does anyone have any ideas as to what options we have, or care to team up with me on this?

Here is what Chat GPT had to say:
View attachment 994595
View attachment 994596

I’m in the same boat…I really just want the car or some communication and transparency. A apology email for the delays would be nice. One feels not like a valued customer, but a despised customer the way we’ve been ignored after years & multiple attempts to get some answers. I think we should try to get a founders edition group together to lobby, form a class action, something to get some attention from Tesla as regardless of the order paid & placed, Tesla is in violation of a number of consumer protection acts. The delay is now far in excess of anything reasonable that They told us. The car is paid in full. They should provide a replacement car until we get delivery after this long of a delay. Let me know your thoughts and what we can do to try to find other founders members and a lobby group.