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I saw this at Maker Faire:
Does anyone know what current and voltage might be expected from the 5 wires leading into the box that then adapts to a "standard" 120V outlet?
My guess is that "expo centers" provide industrial 3 phase power with connectors like this. Would it make sense to offer a quick charger that lets you plug directly into that? You do find situations where demo cars are giving test drives at trade shows & 'faires', and one would want to be able to recharge as quickly as possible.
Perhaps this is a "pin and sleeve" connector like ones described here:
Industrial and multiphase power plugs and sockets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Does anyone know what current and voltage might be expected from the 5 wires leading into the box that then adapts to a "standard" 120V outlet?
My guess is that "expo centers" provide industrial 3 phase power with connectors like this. Would it make sense to offer a quick charger that lets you plug directly into that? You do find situations where demo cars are giving test drives at trade shows & 'faires', and one would want to be able to recharge as quickly as possible.
Perhaps this is a "pin and sleeve" connector like ones described here:
Industrial and multiphase power plugs and sockets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is the type of connector that many EVs over here are already using and the one that I advocated standardising upon. You find them at lots of different commercial premises and the Tesla chargers I have seen in use in the UK have them (see to the right here):
Glad you have it in the States too, it makes the case for using it even stronger.
Glad you have it in the States too, it makes the case for using it even stronger.
For a maker check to Mole site.Welcome To Mole-Richardson
Power>Distribution>*
Power>Distribution>MoleLoc
Welcome To Mole-Richardson
Welcome To Mole-Richardson
Power>Distribution>*
Power>Distribution>MoleLoc
Welcome To Mole-Richardson
Welcome To Mole-Richardson
Close up view of the socket:
5100P9W 100 Amp 120/208 Volt 3PY Pin & Sleeve Plug
100 Amp 120/208 Volt 3PY Pin & Sleeve Plug
Leviton 120/208 AC 3-Phase 4P5W Wiring Watertight Pin and Sleeve Plug - US Pin & Sleeve - Leviton 5100P9W
The adapter boxes they were using seemed to adapt this to multiple NEMA L14-30 twist-lock connectors. They would then daisy chain those cables with standard NEMA5-15 plugs hanging off them every 50 feet or so. I gather this is sort of standard trade show temporary wiring.
5100P9W 100 Amp 120/208 Volt 3PY Pin & Sleeve Plug
100 Amp 120/208 Volt 3PY Pin & Sleeve Plug
Leviton 120/208 AC 3-Phase 4P5W Wiring Watertight Pin and Sleeve Plug - US Pin & Sleeve - Leviton 5100P9W
The adapter boxes they were using seemed to adapt this to multiple NEMA L14-30 twist-lock connectors. They would then daisy chain those cables with standard NEMA5-15 plugs hanging off them every 50 feet or so. I gather this is sort of standard trade show temporary wiring.
I gather the paint color on the socket cover tells electricians what sort of voltage/amperage is availble. For instance, I think Orange indicates that something from 125V-250V is available. Red would be 380V/480V and black would be 500V/600V.
I have seen various wiring with colored tape wrapped around it to indicate something about the type of current expected to run over it.
I have seen various wiring with colored tape wrapped around it to indicate something about the type of current expected to run over it.
Crazy neighbor...
I felt I had to relate a story a crazy, motorhead neighbor told me. He is convinced that anybody who doesn't drive an ICE is the spawn of Satan, and that I am doomed to hell because I ordered a ZEV. He told me he heard a "true story" about someone who was electrocuted to death when attempting to attach his front license plate!
I felt I had to relate a story a crazy, motorhead neighbor told me. He is convinced that anybody who doesn't drive an ICE is the spawn of Satan, and that I am doomed to hell because I ordered a ZEV. He told me he heard a "true story" about someone who was electrocuted to death when attempting to attach his front license plate!
What makes that opinion very silly is that you'd be the one getting electrocuted, not him; your problem, not his!
Higher voltage
If the voltage were stepped up the current could come down.
I'm of the opinion that the way forward would be to step up the 480v to thousands of v to reduce the current to <100A. Insulation is a challenge of course but losses and the problems of inflexible cable would come down.
This is the basis used by power companies to distribute power.
If the voltage were stepped up the current could come down.
I'm of the opinion that the way forward would be to step up the 480v to thousands of v to reduce the current to <100A. Insulation is a challenge of course but losses and the problems of inflexible cable would come down.
This is the basis used by power companies to distribute power.
Increasing the voltage will increase shock hazard. Personally, I don't think going above 440V is a good idea. You really don't want kV arcing through a cracked insulator and through your body.
If they did want high voltage charging perhaps it should be in some sort of robotic charge station that detects a port on the bottom of the vehicle and raises a connector in a way that is far from any people standing nearby.
If they did want high voltage charging perhaps it should be in some sort of robotic charge station that detects a port on the bottom of the vehicle and raises a connector in a way that is far from any people standing nearby.
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I think suggested that some time ago 
do you think I should patent that?
The best use for that technology is to ensure that BEV's do go on charge at night and don't get forgotten! When we're into bev mini-vans that's going to happen.
As for high voltage, I think we'll be ok with leakage as long as we're using good earth leakage detectors.
do you think I should patent that? The best use for that technology is to ensure that BEV's do go on charge at night and don't get forgotten! When we're into bev mini-vans that's going to happen.
As for high voltage, I think we'll be ok with leakage as long as we're using good earth leakage detectors.
I wouldn't want to trust my life to a properly working GFCI.
They are there as a last resort when a situation not meant to normally occur ends up happening. With 120VAC and (to some degree) 240VAC, even if the GFCI fails to interrupt the current, there is a fair chance you will survive with "just an annoying shock". With kV DC at high current levels, the outcome could be much more grim.
We are still talking about the 45 minute "quick-charge" right. So something on the level of 50kW, not much higher.
I'd prefer they just did it with 3 phase, but it seems more likely they'll use the connector that Nissan and Mitsubishi are using which is supposed to be good up to 500V 100A.
Flickr Photo Download: img312
I'd prefer they just did it with 3 phase, but it seems more likely they'll use the connector that Nissan and Mitsubishi are using which is supposed to be good up to 500V 100A.
Flickr Photo Download: img312
Norway seems to test new charging stations on some major road corridors. Specs are 400V/63A/43kW.
From december 2009, all new charging stations in Oslo will be based on the new Ensto charging station - click for more pictures. Currently, the specs say 16A/240V - but the ctation is prepared for more juice as new standards approach.
Ensto also says that these charging stations may be equipped with communication hardware to remotely check whether a station is in use or not, paving the way for internet or phone software, or even onboard map software. I ceriatinly Expect the Model S to have some "search for nearby charging stations" software possibilities.
From december 2009, all new charging stations in Oslo will be based on the new Ensto charging station - click for more pictures. Currently, the specs say 16A/240V - but the ctation is prepared for more juice as new standards approach.
Ensto also says that these charging stations may be equipped with communication hardware to remotely check whether a station is in use or not, paving the way for internet or phone software, or even onboard map software. I ceriatinly Expect the Model S to have some "search for nearby charging stations" software possibilities.
I think people are going to be surprised to realize that a regular 120 volt 15 amp outlet will be enough.
I have been using a MC 120 only for the past three weeks and it is more than enough. Your car is parked for 14 hours per night in your garage for most of the population.
Most parking lots will be easier to add level one outlets (120 volts and 15 amps).
Most on board chargers will be cheaper if they are just 1.5 KW units.
The reality is that cost will be a factor. I have come to realize that Elon was correct when he removed the HPC from the default Tesla package. Most people don't need it. The MC 120 is enough.
Sure, it is wonderful to recharge at 240 volts and 70 amps.
The reality is that my 40 amps with the RFMC is more than enough.
The real story is that the MC 120 will meet the daily needs of 95% of the population.
We are going to overbuild the recharging infrastructure with all of these level 2 and level 3 charging stations that we don't need.
I just read an article where some analyst was concerned about multiple EVs on the same street all recharging at the same time. What a joke.
I have been using a MC 120 only for the past three weeks and it is more than enough. Your car is parked for 14 hours per night in your garage for most of the population.
Most parking lots will be easier to add level one outlets (120 volts and 15 amps).
Most on board chargers will be cheaper if they are just 1.5 KW units.
The reality is that cost will be a factor. I have come to realize that Elon was correct when he removed the HPC from the default Tesla package. Most people don't need it. The MC 120 is enough.
Sure, it is wonderful to recharge at 240 volts and 70 amps.
The reality is that my 40 amps with the RFMC is more than enough.
The real story is that the MC 120 will meet the daily needs of 95% of the population.
We are going to overbuild the recharging infrastructure with all of these level 2 and level 3 charging stations that we don't need.
I just read an article where some analyst was concerned about multiple EVs on the same street all recharging at the same time. What a joke.
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SByer
'08 #383
I agree - well, except for the 120v part, and that's probably because I haven't gone in to get my firmware upgraded for the better 120v charging profile.
But I find plugging into a dryer outlet is more than enough to take care of a week's driving overnight. I'm pretty sure the local transformer could handle a few homes doing their laundry at the same time. Especially when it's when very little else is going on.
I think it's just more FUD from the fossilists.
But I find plugging into a dryer outlet is more than enough to take care of a week's driving overnight. I'm pretty sure the local transformer could handle a few homes doing their laundry at the same time. Especially when it's when very little else is going on.
I think it's just more FUD from the fossilists.
Just keep in mind that Dag is talking about Norwegian recharge stations which of course will be the European 230-240V minimum, as that's our wall socket voltage. In Norway though most breakers are just 10A or sometimes the better 16A. So this is still what I would call level 1 chargers in Norway.
And for new charging stations going for anything less than 230V and 16A is silly. As well as fitting the cables and connections for heavier systems also makes sense. After all getting any kind of work done is hideously expensive in Norway, so materials costs are usually not relevant. You might as well go for he best you can then.
Cobos
And for new charging stations going for anything less than 230V and 16A is silly. As well as fitting the cables and connections for heavier systems also makes sense. After all getting any kind of work done is hideously expensive in Norway, so materials costs are usually not relevant. You might as well go for he best you can then.
Cobos
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