Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

45 Minute quick charge?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Agree with Cobos - I think our European 230V system gives us a different perspective.

Also, there is a personal circumstance thing to consider. There are some Mini E drivers who definitely couldn't get by with the 120V charger for their daily commutes.

Finally, while 15 hours of 120V charging might give you enough energy to move a lightweight sports car for you needs, it could be a different story once the general population starts buying larger, heavier vehicles with bigger battery packs.
 
Finally, while 15 hours of 120V charging might give you enough energy to move a lightweight sports car for you needs, it could be a different story once the general population starts buying larger, heavier vehicles with bigger battery packs.

That is a good point. But realistically 240 volts and 30-40 amps in every garage will fit the needs of just about everyone. You could recharge the largest battery packs overnight.

A bunch of level 1 recharging in parking garages or parking lots would also be ideal. Top off that battery pack while you work or shop. In a parking lot if you have 100+ EVs charging, it will be difficult to provide more than level 1 recharging to all of them at the same time.

The only locations need level 3 are those making long distance trips on the highway. Restaurants along exits on the highway would be my preferred choice. Stop for lunch and a bathroom break. 1 hour, then do another 200+ miles.
 
Last edited:
I agree - well, except for the 120v part, and that's probably because I haven't gone in to get my firmware upgraded for the better 120v charging profile.

I didn't realize there was a firmware update that changes the 120v charging profile. When did that happen and how does it do this?

Less energy spent on fans or coolant circulation? More energy into the battery pack?
 
I didn't realize there was a firmware update that changes the 120v charging profile. When did that happen and how does it do this?

Less energy spent on fans or coolant circulation? More energy into the battery pack?

I second this question...when did this happen and what does it do? for only 2.0 or 1.5 also?
 
I think people are going to be surprised to realize that a regular 120 volt 15 amp outlet will be enough. :)

I have been using a MC 120 only for the past three weeks and it is more than enough. Your car is parked for 14 hours per night in your garage for most of the population. ...

I seriously disagree! 120V at 15 AMP will kill the Electric car. Again!

I had 120V at 12A for my first 2 months of ownership. If you want to drive your car it's just not enough. If you can plug in everywhere you could possibly park the car then yes it's OK but we are decades from having that kind of infrastructure. If you drive around, go to dinner and a movie and come home late you are boned with 120 because the next morning you have squat.

Nissan is talking about a level 1 120v J1772 for the first round of cars. It's a deadly idea. Having a 120v charger is like.

An oven that only gets to 120 degrees
Filling with gasoline through a drinking straw
A TV set with no sound
Sleeping on the couch
Getting a haircut one quadrant at a time
Country music
 
I seriously disagree! 120V at 15 AMP will kill the Electric car. Again!

I had 120V at 12A for my first 2 months of ownership. If you want to drive your car it's just not enough.

Fair enough. It likely depends on the daily driving habits of the EV owner. If I recall, you drive 100 miles per day. :eek: So you clearly need level 2 recharging ability of 240 volts and 30+ amps

But do you need 45 minute quick charging?
 
Fair enough. It likely depends on the daily driving habits of the EV owner. If I recall, you drive 100 miles per day. :eek: So you clearly need level 2 recharging ability of 240 volts and 30+ amps

But do you need 45 minute quick charging?


James, weren't you looking at installing an HPC at your warehouse to enable owners to drive from Seattle to Portland and back? While I'm sure people appreciate the gesture, it would be much more useful for a pit stop if it was a 45 minute charger rather than 3 hours of feet tapping for the return trip.

No one is suggesting that overnight charging be done like this - the point of the thread (and having the facility on the car) is that 45 minute charging enables lunchtime charging. So the combination of this and waking up with a full "tank" enables long day trips to be made and leads to EV acceptance.
 
I agree with 24A. When I use 40A I'll notice the front fans being used at times during the charging process. They're loud, so it's noticeable. When I use 24A that almost never happens. So I use 24A for day to day charging. Plenty fast charging for me.

That is an excellent point. I might dial it down to 24 amps for a while (once I get another RFMC in stock) and monitor this. The reality is that is enough power to recharge any EV overnight. That is about 5 kwh per hour.

That could recharge a Nissan Leaf in four hours from empty. That could recharge a Tesla in 10 hours from empty. How often do you actually get your Tesla down to empty? I rarely go below 90 ideal miles at 50%.

I really wish that EV manufacturers would make a recommended overnight standard charging rate. Just because the Tesla Roadster can handle 70 amps doesn't mean owners should actually do that every time.

If most houses were doing two EVs overnight at 240 volts / 24 amps, that is a very reasonable amount of electricity consumption that won't stress the grid.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just as another data point - my RangerEV is a plain level II only - ~30amps@~240V. (Imagine that - the ~year 2000 vintage previous generation EVs picked a "sweet spot" charge current too). My daily commute is approx 50 miles, and uses about 20kWh which I can get back in around 4 hours through the charger. Right before bed (to ensure nighttime charge rates) I plug it in and 8 hours later I am always ready to go. Unfortunately, with only 26kWh pack and poor aerodynamics the total range capabilty is only about 60 miles so this ends up being a commuter special never for road trips.
 
For 45min quick charge you really have to have thick electrical wires to be able to absorb the the high amount of electricity to the batteries. High (electrical) current needs thicker pipes (wires).

Charging at home is a different story and does not require much from the wires. Low (electrical) current trough thin pipes (wires).

If you are traveling further than the limit the batteries allow you need to charge batteries quickly. In 45 mins you can service yourself and the car and get going. Quick charge does need changes to the infrastructure. It should not be a problem since companies providing electricity do want to sell their product to you and the gas/electrical stations do want customers and the commercial parks too.

Many commercial centres have already set up charging stations in scandinavia to get customers and show their leading edge technological thinking.

It does not matter what the voltage is at the hair dryer socket except at home.
 
Fair enough. It likely depends on the daily driving habits of the EV owner. If I recall, you drive 100 miles per day. :eek: So you clearly need level 2 recharging ability of 240 volts and 30+ amps

But do you need 45 minute quick charging?

I don't have any kind of regular commute but If I had 220 and 24 or 30 amp I would be satisfied at home. I'd ask for 45 min at waystations on roadtrips.
 
That is an excellent point. I might dial it down to 24 amps for a while (once I get another RFMC in stock) and monitor this. The reality is that is enough power to recharge any EV overnight. That is about 5 kwh per hour.

Except when the likes of the 300 mile Model S come along with their 90kWh battery packs (the new Panasonic 4Ah cell could even lead to a 108kWh pack).

If we take the 90kWh example and then add overheads in line with charging the Roadster at this rate, we could end up with a total of 115kWh required. Needless to say, your overnight charge is now 23 hours...

If you actually want to charge such an EV overnight (say 8 hours) you need closer to 15kW supplies - or nearly the output of the HPC.

Personally speaking, when I do make the sort of journey that would deplete a 300 mile battery, it is normally one way and normally I am moving on or returning the next day. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think that having long range EVs that still take a day to fill on level 2 infrastructure will not be acceptable.
 
I might dial it down to 24 amps for a while (once I get another RFMC in stock) and monitor this. The reality is that is enough power to recharge any EV overnight. That is about 5 kwh per hour.
...

Probably "preaching to the choir", but:

Leaving out routine nighttime charging, if you are trying to do a roadtrip and stopping at RV hookups along the way, having 40AMPs means a lot. Also as you know all too well, at a track event everyone looking for a top-off wants the ~40AMP chargers not the ~30s.

I just thought I should mention this in case anyone new comes here and thinks that 24AMPS is all you ever need based on comments saying it is fine for most overnight charging.
 
Personally speaking, when I do make the sort of journey that would deplete a 300 mile battery, it is normally one way and normally I am moving on or returning the next day. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think that having long range EVs that still take a day to fill on level 2 infrastructure will not be acceptable.

Well, I'm not a Supermoderator, nor an electrical engineer, but my version of the math is that my 40 a curcuit in my garage (yes, 32 usable) recharges a fully depleted pack in 15 hours. That's overnight.
But who does a full depletion?? I understand that is damaging. Using only 100 miles or so recharges in about 5 hours, or while I'm asleep.
On a trip, I don't want to drive much more than 5 or 6 hours. Toss in a lunch break. That's about 300 miles. Driving faster gets worse mileage, and simply takes longer for recharge.
Find the hotel that offers 50amp charging, or is near a KOA. Full recharge in 12 hours. Dinner, a show, sleep, breakfast. You in a hurry? Rent a Gas Hog.
But still, normally a 300 mile pack will get 150 miles and last longer with gentler charging. That's the point. Don't try to get 150 miles on a 160 mile pack every day and then fast charge it. It won't last.
I drove a RAV4EV for 6 years. Never, as in NEVER, had problems with charge times, with just a minimum amount of planning.
It will be interesting to see how the ideas change as we get these cars on the road.
Roblab
 
Well, I'm not a Supermoderator, nor an electrical engineer, but my version of the math is that my 40 a curcuit in my garage (yes, 32 usable) recharges a fully depleted pack in 15 hours. That's overnight.

Nothing wrong with your math - or mine - but we were talking about a 24A supply giving roughly the 5kWh per hour (aka 5kW) which James said was enough.

The point is that it is not enough to recharge any EV overnight - no matter how rarely you might want the entire capability of that pack.


I totally agree with you - find a hotel with 50 Amp supply. Maybe even more if they have it.
 
I just completed a round trip from Phoenix to Rocklin CA (just outside of Sacramento where I stayed for 3 days) over the last 10 days. I'd like to make a couple of points here. Taking the "Rabobank Highway (101)" from LA to the Bay Area was great. I hit all four bank sites on the way to Sacto and enjoyed the stops of 2 or 3 hours because I wandered around, ate a meal and visited with the bank personnel who were all thrilled to see someone using the chargers, or talked to people who came up to ask about the car. A couple of the bank sites have 220/70 service, a couple were limited to 40 or 30 amps as they weren't upgraded yet. The Salinas bank was closed when I got there, but the 2 hrs I spent was fine once I found the Starbucks.

From Salinas, the last bank stop, I traveled to Vacaville where they had a 240/30 Tesla charger installed at a park and ride. The fact is it was 1:30 in the morning and raining when I stopped and I only needed to add about 80 miles to the car, at 4 AM I couldn't take it any more and left with about 70 miles added. These differences in time to fill are not linear when you consider time of day and circumstances. Now, it was my dumb decision to drive the LA to Sacto leg (I left LA at 9:30 AM and arrived in Rocklin at 5:00 AM the next morning) in one stretch because I had lost a day due to poor charger planning (I'll tell you later) and I had people to meet the following day. I also had a great HPC hookup in Rocklin during my 3 day stay, located outside a Financial Management firm that is full of EV nuts, including a Tesla owner and 2 Model S orderers.

On my trip home, I stopped at an HPC in Davis instead of Vacaville and that site was much better (plus it was early in the daylight part of the morning, wasn't raining and the site was inside a parking garage). I next stopped for an overnight in Atascadero while I charged, and the next day I skipped Santa Maria and went to Goleta, then to LA. Actually, the above is all the good stuff. I was using HPCs at least and didn't have to worry about connections.

On my way from Phoenix, I stopped first at an RV site in Blythe with a 240/50 connection and I had the right adapter (thanks Martin and James). I spent 5 hours there going and closer to 6 hours on my return to fill the tank. Those were long, long stops. I read a novel, I walked to keep my back loose, I talked to RVers who asked about the car, but still the time dragged. Going I had good weather, returning it was raining and the park had electrical problems. The park was nice, the people were great, but I was watching the pot boil and it seemed to take forever.

From Blythe, I was to stop at a hotel in Ontario to charge overnight. This was my big screwup. I read on the EV charger web site a comment from a Tesla driver about using the site and I made sure the charger was operational when I made hotel reservations, but I didn't look at the type of connector. It was an SPI, no good to me as I didn't have that adapter as did the other Tesla driver (I now note). The drive from Blythe to Ontario sucked me dry and the battery alarmed eight miles from the hotel. I got off I-10 and went to an AM-PM where I could at least get a 110/15 connection. It took 2 hours to get about 8 miles worth of power and I made it to the hotel only to find the SPI connection problem. It was 11:00 PM, no maintenance man on duty so I left the dead car and went to bed. Next morning, the maintenance man shrugged his shoulders and said maybe I'd better go ask at other businesses around the hotel. When that didn't produce results, he told me about the service station they used for their trucks, which actually did service work and might have 220 available, but which wouldn't open until 10AM. The station was about 4 miles away and though the car complained, I cycled the key and went into the reserve power and drove at about 10 to 15mph to the station.

While I sat there waiting, I called AAA and Tesla road service asking for help. Both said they'd get back to me, but my phone was working to make calls, it just wasn't ringing when someone called me (I'm not making this up). (I later found their messages in my mail box.) To end this gruesome story, AAA finally arrived, the station service department people came (no 220), Tesla and AAA found no 220 charging locations in the Ontario area, so AAA loaded me on the truck and hauled me about 60 miles to the Tesla store on Santa Monica Blvd, where I was able to fill the car. By the way, the car phoned home (the LA Tesla store) when I cycled the key to go into the reserve battery and asked Bob to please rescue it. Since this was the first trip back to Tesla, Bob took advantage of the opportunity to do some upgrades and asked me to stop on my way back to let him finish the work. Even diasters have bright spots.

So, the moral of the story is: the Tesla can be driven on long trips, even by dummies like me, but it takes good planning. Whenever the plug in time is longer than the driving time, the time drags expotentially. More is better for juice. And if the battery technology can get to fast charging times of 45 to 30 minutes for highway use, this EV technology will explode.

Sorry it took so long and I hope it's not so scrambled you don't get my points.
 
rsquared99's Post needs it's own Thread. Something like "Owner Roadster Road trips" so we can find it again.


I noted you "filled up your tank". Interesting.

Phoenix Motors (ironically) is in Ontario. They have shown distain for Tesla in the past but perhaps they would be sympathetic to an EV owner -no matter what they drive.

Should they be on the charger map page?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.