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2023 200TW Tire Assessment

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Hey All! We got some pretty good exposure to lots of different tires during the Model 3 Challenge, and we put lots of laps on them. Here's my thoughts on where we stand on the current selection. It's also important to note that our cars generally have some fairly unique requirements, as compared to lighter cars, or cars that can lap for 30+ minutes at a time.

Bridgestone RE-71RS - This looks to be the king of the 200TW for the Model 3. They come up to temperature fast, they run some of the fastest hot laps, and they wear much better than something like an A052. They do tend to lose a little bit of spice over repeated laps, but the falloff isn't all that significant.

Nankang CR-S V2 2023 - These look like a good contender to the other fastest-paced 200TW tires, but they take some time to build up to temperature for hot laps. Outright pace is similar to the RE-71RS, and they seem to hold up to repeated lapping better, but they are not the best option for time-trials due to the extended time required heating them.

Falken RT660 - The pace on these seems to be slightly off that of the RE-71RS. They also appear to wear more quickly, and have similar heat characteristics, falling off a bit with repeated lapping. Probably not the king of the hill at this point, but still near the pointy end.

Yokohama A052 - I've previously posted my thoughts on these, and they haven't much changed. Their pace and warmup characteristics are very similar to that of the RE-71RS, but they fall-off very fast and wear very quickly. Only recommended if you have a big budget and are focused on single fast laps.

Goodyear Supercar 3 - The Supercar 3 is a well-rounded tire, and does street and track duty well. If you're looking for something to do both, this is a very solid option. It does not quite have the pace of the faster 200TW tires, but it does wear well, and withstands heat well.

Kumho V730 - These tires are a good choice for those looking to put lots of laps in. They don't have the pace of the faster 200TW tires, but they warm up quickly, wear well, and have high heat tolerance levels. A year ago, they were also priced ~30% cheaper than other options, making them a compelling choice. This appears to have changed since then. Still a good solution for lappers.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - I would consider this the go-to tire for wet track usage. They aren't a contender in the dry, but in slippery conditions they shine. A great well-rounded tire that everyone is familiar with.

I think we should also point out that we also found, and this is likely compounded by the weight of the Model 3, that a relatively wide wheel with a narrower tire was generally a faster option. E.g. a 275 on a 10.5" wheel was well suited, while a 305 on that same wheel was not, and ended up with a lot of edge rollover. Similarly, a 275 on a 9.5" wheel was likely slower than a 255 on that same wheel. It's important to choose your tire first before selecting a wheel. As a general rule of thumb, you want the tread width of the tire to be the same or 0.5" narrower than the width of the wheel.

I think that about sums it up. Do you have feedback on some other options? Let me know here!

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"Model 3 Wheel" by jurvetson is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
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Hey All! We got some pretty good exposure to lots of different tires during the Model 3 Challenge, and we put lots of laps on them. Here's my thoughts on where we stand on the current selection. It's also important to note that our cars generally have some fairly unique requirements, as compared to lighter cars, or cars that can lap for 30+ minutes at a time.

Bridgestone RE-71RS - This looks to be the king of the 200TW for the Model 3. They come up to temperature fast, they run some of the fastest hot laps, and they wear much better than something like an A052. They do tend to lose a little bit of spice over repeated laps, but the falloff isn't all that significant.

Nankang CR-S V2 2023 - These look like a good contender to the other fastest-paced 200TW tires, but they take some time to build up to temperature for hot laps. Outright pace is similar to the RE-71RS, and they seem to hold up to repeated lapping better, but they are not the best option for time-trials due to the extended time required heating them.

Falken RT660 - The pace on these seems to be slightly off that of the RE-71RS. They also appear to wear more quickly, and have similar heat characteristics, falling off a bit with repeated lapping. Probably not the king of the hill at this point, but still near the pointy end.

Yokohama A052 - I've previously posted my thoughts on these, and they haven't much changed. Their pace and warmup characteristics are very similar to that of the RE-71RS, but they fall-off very fast and wear very quickly. Only recommended if you have a big budget and are focused on single fast laps.

Goodyear Supercar 3 - The Supercar 3 is a well-rounded tire, and does street and track duty well. If you're looking for something to do both, this is a very solid option. It does not quite have the pace of the faster 200TW tires, but it does wear well, and withstands heat well.

Kumho V730 - These tires are a good choice for those looking to put lots of laps in. They don't have the pace of the faster 200TW tires, but they warm up quickly, wear well, and have high heat tolerance levels. A year ago, they were also priced ~30% cheaper than other options, making them a compelling choice. This appears to have changed since then. Still a good solution for lappers.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - I would consider this the go-to tire for wet track usage. They aren't a contender in the dry, but in slippery conditions they shine. A great well-rounded tire that everyone is familiar with.

I think we should also point out that we also found, and this is likely compounded by the weight of the Model 3, that a relatively wide wheel with a narrower tire was generally a faster option. E.g. a 275 on a 10.5" wheel was well suited, while a 305 on that same wheel was not, and ended up with a lot of edge rollover. Similarly, a 275 on a 9.5" wheel was likely slower than a 255 on that same wheel. It's important to choose your tire first before selecting a wheel. As a general rule of thumb, you want the tread width of the tire to be the same or 0.5" narrower than the width of the wheel.

I think that about sums it up. Do you have feedback on some other options? Let me know here!
Great post. Very helpful. Have you tried anything from Nitto, Toyo, or the Michelin Cup 2/R tires? Just curious how those tires stack up against these tires.
 
Great post. Very helpful. Have you tried anything from Nitto, Toyo, or the Michelin Cup 2/R tires? Just curious how those tires stack up against these tires.

I think the consensus is that all Toyo 200TW tires are uncompetitive at this point. The same company owns Nitto as well, so the compounds are very similar, and therefore deliver similar results - uncompetitive. I don't think I would spend my money on them personally.

The Michelin PS Cup 2 is fairly similar to the Goodyear Supercar 3 in terms of performance, warmup, and heat tolerance. The main downsides are price and they seem to heat cycle out pretty quickly. Personally, the price would keep me away from it.
 
Interesting.
When you talk 'edge rollover', do you mean 305/30/19 vs 275/30/19 or 305/30/19 vs 275/35/19?
And at what pressures?
My use is autox, so not the same, but I corded my 305-wide RT660s on the inside while running 3.5ish degrees of camber up front (less in the rear) and zero-ish toe all around
 
Interesting.
When you talk 'edge rollover', do you mean 305/30/19 vs 275/30/19 or 305/30/19 vs 275/35/19?
And at what pressures?
My use is autox, so not the same, but I corded my 305-wide RT660s on the inside while running 3.5ish degrees of camber up front (less in the rear) and zero-ish toe all around
305/30/19 vs 275/35/19.

I would say auto-x is definitely a different use case, so I'm not certain my data is applicable. It would be interesting to test them back to back.

Inner edge wear seems to be a product of the toe you're running more so than the camber.
 
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Inner edge wear seems to be a product of the toe you're running more so than the camber.
On the street or track. In autox there's not much straight line running to matter, so I think it's largely about tires not rolling over enough on asphalt. I get relatively event tire temps on grippy concrete, but adjusting alignment per event is probably too much work.

I corded those not at the edge where I used to get toe wear on other tires, but a bit further from the edge.
 
On the street or track. In autox there's not much straight line running to matter, so I think it's largely about tires not rolling over enough on asphalt. I get relatively event tire temps on grippy concrete, but adjusting alignment per event is probably too much work.

I corded those not at the edge where I used to get toe wear on other tires, but a bit further from the edge.

Certainly toe-out on the street will chew the inner edges of the tires. I've found it to be fairly similar on the track as well, though to a lesser degree.

Auto-X again will present some different characteristics, as, like you said - not a whole lot of driving in a straight line lol!
 
Hi,

Looking at some AutoX tires for next year...

My local club has 3 national champions 2022-2023, so the level is super high (STS, SM and BSP)

I run 9.5 Apex EC7 Wheels. Lately I was running 265/35 18 RT660, but 2.5 years old, not so great...

I'm torn between being competitive vs price... Also not sure which width to choose...

With the weight of the model 3 I always thought wider = better for AutoX... But my rims are only 9.5 wide...

- 4x Kumho V730 275/35 18 = $900
- 4x Bridgestone RE-71RS 275/35 18 = $1430
-4x Yoks A052 275/40 18 or 275/35 18 = $1500+ (available in 40 sidewalls)
-4x Nankangs CR-S 2023 275/35 18 or 275/40 18 = $1500 (available in 40 sidewalls)
- 4x Goodyear Supercar 3 275/35 18 or 275/40 18 = $1250 (available in 40 sidewalls)

Right now I'm ranking between 5th to 10th Raw out of 80 in this club, depending of the events

To be honest, I would not mind grabing a few ranks, but I will need A052 or Bridges for that... A052 too soft for model 3...

I also would like a tire that would last a full year with competitive times, maybe 2 years (as I only do 6-8 events per year, as I also roadcourse a C7 Z06)

First : 35 or 40 sidewalls ?

For 9.5 and AutoX 275/35 is okay ? I could even fit 295/35 on 9.5 but it looks like it is not recommended without an 11 or 12 wheel...

I'm honestly tempted by the RE-71RS, but the V730 price is also attractive...
 
We have a dedicated autox thread too.
I'd wait for the regular costco ~$150/set discounts for Bridgestones and buy those there. Everything else will just leave you wanting. Pay once cry once.
I run 295/30/18 and wouldn't go 40. The 275/35 size is fine on 9.5 wheels, provided you have decent camber.
The only concern I have with the V730 for AutoX use is that it takes a wee bit of heat to come up to temperature, whereas the RE71RS is pretty much ready to go. Probably can't go wrong with either option though.

I would go with 275/40 sidewalls on 18's personally.

275 is as big as I would go on a 9.5.

I have MPP Corkscrew Camber arms

275/40 18 is not available with RE-71 RS...

So likely will do 275/35 18 next seasons then...
 
What would you recommend for track days for a beginner? This will be my second set of tires as I've almost worn out the Bridgestone S007 in 275/35r19 that were very inexpensive.

I am trying to decide between the RE-71 in 275/35r19 vs the supercar 3 in 265/35r19

My M3P track wheels are 19x10 and I run camber a little under -2 plus I generally drive to the track on my track setup if within 200 miles.
 
Hey All! We got some pretty good exposure to lots of different tires during the Model 3 Challenge, and we put lots of laps on them. Here's my thoughts on where we stand on the current selection. It's also important to note that our cars generally have some fairly unique requirements, as compared to lighter cars, or cars that can lap for 30+ minutes at a time.

Bridgestone RE-71RS - This looks to be the king of the 200TW for the Model 3. They come up to temperature fast, they run some of the fastest hot laps, and they wear much better than something like an A052. They do tend to lose a little bit of spice over repeated laps, but the falloff isn't all that significant.

Nankang CR-S V2 2023 - These look like a good contender to the other fastest-paced 200TW tires, but they take some time to build up to temperature for hot laps. Outright pace is similar to the RE-71RS, and they seem to hold up to repeated lapping better, but they are not the best option for time-trials due to the extended time required heating them.

Falken RT660 - The pace on these seems to be slightly off that of the RE-71RS. They also appear to wear more quickly, and have similar heat characteristics, falling off a bit with repeated lapping. Probably not the king of the hill at this point, but still near the pointy end.

Yokohama A052 - I've previously posted my thoughts on these, and they haven't much changed. Their pace and warmup characteristics are very similar to that of the RE-71RS, but they fall-off very fast and wear very quickly. Only recommended if you have a big budget and are focused on single fast laps.

Goodyear Supercar 3 - The Supercar 3 is a well-rounded tire, and does street and track duty well. If you're looking for something to do both, this is a very solid option. It does not quite have the pace of the faster 200TW tires, but it does wear well, and withstands heat well.

Kumho V730 - These tires are a good choice for those looking to put lots of laps in. They don't have the pace of the faster 200TW tires, but they warm up quickly, wear well, and have high heat tolerance levels. A year ago, they were also priced ~30% cheaper than other options, making them a compelling choice. This appears to have changed since then. Still a good solution for lappers.

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - I would consider this the go-to tire for wet track usage. They aren't a contender in the dry, but in slippery conditions they shine. A great well-rounded tire that everyone is familiar with.

I think we should also point out that we also found, and this is likely compounded by the weight of the Model 3, that a relatively wide wheel with a narrower tire was generally a faster option. E.g. a 275 on a 10.5" wheel was well suited, while a 305 on that same wheel was not, and ended up with a lot of edge rollover. Similarly, a 275 on a 9.5" wheel was likely slower than a 255 on that same wheel. It's important to choose your tire first before selecting a wheel. As a general rule of thumb, you want the tread width of the tire to be the same or 0.5" narrower than the width of the wheel.

I think that about sums it up. Do you have feedback on some other options? Let me know here!

View attachment 985534
"Model 3 Wheel" by jurvetson is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
Admin note: Image added for Blog Feed thumbnail
I am newbie... What you suggest me?
 
The only concern I have with the V730 for AutoX use is that it takes a wee bit of heat to come up to temperature, whereas the RE71RS is pretty much ready to go. Probably can't go wrong with either option though.

I would go with 275/40 sidewalls on 18's personally.

275 is as big as I would go on a 9.5.

BTW I was looking at tirerack rim width test...

I'm wondering if going 255/40 on an Apex EC7 9.5" would not be better than 275/35 ?

Weird thing though, at tirerack :

255/35 18 = 9.6" tread width ($328)
255/40 18 = 8.7" tread width ??? A lot cheaper also ($264)
265/35 18 = 9.4" tread width
275/35 18 = 10.1" tread width

Is the 255/40 18 really skinnier and why would this be the case ?? And would be why cheaper ?

I'm confused.
 
If you're just starting out, picking something with longer life as opposed to outright pace is likely your best option. For those cases the Goodyear Supercar 3 or the Kumho V730 is likely your best pick(s).

BTW I was looking at tirerack rim width test...

I'm wondering if going 255/40 on an Apex EC7 9.5" would not be better than 275/35 ?

Weird thing though, at tirerack :

255/35 18 = 9.6" tread width ($328)
255/40 18 = 8.7" tread width ??? A lot cheaper also ($264)
265/35 18 = 9.4" tread width
275/35 18 = 10.1" tread width

Is the 255/40 18 really skinnier and why would this be the case ?? And would be why cheaper ?

I'm confused.
I've found Tire Racks width measurements to occasionally be inaccurate. So, unfortunately, without the tires in-hand it would likely be impossible to say for certain. Prices seems to have a mind of their own. In general wider or larger rim size equals higher price, but that's not always the case.

To answer your question, with the Model 3 being as heavy as it is, it definitely seems to benefit from more sidewall support, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 255 is faster than the 275 on a 9.5" wheel.
 
If you're just starting out, picking something with longer life as opposed to outright pace is likely your best option. For those cases the Goodyear Supercar 3 or the Kumho V730 is likely your best pick(s).


I've found Tire Racks width measurements to occasionally be inaccurate. So, unfortunately, without the tires in-hand it would likely be impossible to say for certain. Prices seems to have a mind of their own. In general wider or larger rim size equals higher price, but that's not always the case.

To answer your question, with the Model 3 being as heavy as it is, it definitely seems to benefit from more sidewall support, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 255 is faster than the 275 on a 9.5" wheel.

Yeah if it was 8.7" tread width it would mean 220mm, which would seem really weird for a 255 tire...
 
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Tread width isn't exactly easy to decipher. The 265 S007s I'm on now are more than an inch wider that the 255 Indy 500s I had. I have some 275 S007s in my garage and I measured those and the tread width seems to be where the edges of the sipes end. But I've only measured this tire so I don't know if this measurement is the same between all tire manufacturers. Either way, the shape of the edge of the tire can really change how this compares to the tire size. There is also the section width to consider. The 275s I have have a rounder sidewall than the 265s. The tread width on both tires are both 9.6". Section width on the 275 is 0.3" wider. The 275 certainly looks a little wider. In fact, they added some sides to the outer edge of the tread where the 265s have a solid or tread block, which is disappointing from an aesthetic standpoint, but probably necessary for wet traction. Best to consider both the tread and section width at the least but also accept that these may not paint a full picture.
 
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@MasterC17 @Mash @dsgerbc

I probably wont be able to autoX this season (having a baby, moving across the country, and starting a new job this spring and through the summer), so I am getting my lists ready for winter upgrades…

At what point are we going overboard on width?

I was originally thinking a 275 Re-71Rs on a 10.5 wheel, but got to looking at CMSTs mild wide-body kit that should allow an extra 22mm of tire width up front. In theory, this opens up the following front fitments (especially in 18”, these are somewhat limited by available wheel widths that will fit and still provide good sidewall support to get the most out of the tire):

RE-71RS:
—295/35R18
—305/30R19

CR-S
—295/35R18
—325/30R19

Obviously, even doing the bodywork myself, this takes me from <$4000 for simple Konig 10.5” wheels and 275 Re-71s, to easily double the expense for the overfenders, wider 11.5-12” wheels, and the wider tires.

I am not building for a particular class; I am just enjoying building a capable vehicle for AutoX with the occasional HPDE. (FWIW, even on cheap Federal 595s, I have FTDd in multiple local AutoX events, and coned away my 2nd place RAW finish at my last PCA event with almost 50 racers. I do expect even the planned 275/10.5 RE-71Rs upgrade would have helped pretty significantly. I am not an alien or anything, but I do have about 30 years of Motorsport experience on 2 and 4 wheels). All that said, would one see much benefit with such an investment over the aforementioned 275/10.5 setup?

Thanks!
 
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