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I think you misunderstand the point of him not caring about making money. He does, he plans to use his TSLA holdings to finance his Mars colonization plans and has said as much.

What he doesn't care is maximizing short term profits at the cost of long term plans. He will sacrifice short term for the higher return further out and has done so many times. He doesn't care if TSLA is profitable in Q3, Q4, Q1 etc. He cares that the cashflow is there to reinvest into the growth to reach his end goals of saving humanity. To do that he needs to generate cash so yes he does care about profits, but they are not a goal itself. He games the quarters because Wall str needs it and he needs the Wall str still to get investments. Once TSLA has enough growth momentum to tell Wall str to take a hike for future raises he'll stop this catering and optimize for everything else.

But he doesn't care about making the maximum profit Q-over-Q. He cares about making maximum effect and impact to the world down the line and to do that he needs leverage (profits / cashflow) in the interim.

I think my point was missed. This board continues to be an echo chamber only for those who want to see the positive aspect in everything this company does as if they can do no wrong and that all of their misses are the fault of outside forces. I got 7 dislikes (the most for any post that I have ever made) because I said that they pretty much pulled the plug on all the demand levers this last quarter save a price reduction. That warrants 7 dislikes? Please tell me, what other demand levers are there near term? the hope for a HUD?

I follow up with a post saying that as CEO EM better darn well care about capital appreciation for the other owners of the company, we the shareholders. Once you go public, it is no longer your personal piggy bank for other pet projects and clearly, he does care about the share price both short and long term, as he should. To speak as if EM can do no wrong, and to not call out and instead make excuses only perpetuates this. Tesla is no longer a startup, it is approaching a $40billion market cap. If they make promises or projections and they fail to deliver they should be held accountable, especially on an investors board. I just do not understand the hate/animosity that is spewed toward people with a contrary view that it is not all roses right now, but there is a ton of hope in the Model 3 if they execute properly. Is there not room for a moderate view?

clearly the market was not too spooked by this miss, but it was a miss by all definitions and understanding of the word.
 
(first post, long-time lurker)

From TechCrunch:

Although we tried to recover these deliveries and expedite others by the end of the quarter, time ran out before we could deliver all customer cars. In total, about 2,750 vehicles missed being counted as deliveries in Q4 either due to last-minute delays in transport or because the customer was unable to physically take delivery. Even where these customers had already fully paid for their vehicle, we still did not count these as deliveries in Q4.

This is a bit confusing. The statement from Tesla says that the customers have fully paid for the vehicle and the delivery hasn't been counted against official Q4 delivery numbers. Where will the revenue from sales be counted in the Q4 quarterly call? Q1 or Q4?

If Q1, then there's a range between $178.75M - $330M (about referencing the 2,750 cars with a range between $65k - $120k per car) that hasn't been accounted for. It'd mean that they're doing a lot better than they're messaging the accounting to Wall Street, no?

(This doesn't take into account sales from Tesla Energy). I think we're in for a very positive beat in a month and a half.
 
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(first post, long-time lurker)

From TechCrunch:



This is a bit confusing. The statement from Tesla says that the customers have fully paid for the vehicle and the delivery hasn't been counted against official Q4 delivery numbers. Where will the revenue from sales be counted in the Q4 quarterly call? Q1 or Q4?

If Q1, then there's a range between $178.75M - $330M (about referencing the 2,750 cars with a range between $65k - $120k per car) that hasn't been accounted for. It'd mean that they're doing a lot better than they're messaging the accounting to Wall Street, no?

(This doesn't take into account sales from Tesla Energy). I think we're in for a very positive beat in a month and a half.

Q1...

Tesla sales = paid AND delivered

Cash unaffected for unpaid & undelivered final inventory as they draw it from their ABL
 
How much is FF for Chinese consumption? I could see them staging as cutting edge American innovation for marketing to Chinese EV consumers. That is, they don't really need to be competitive with Tesla within US market. Being competitive within Chinese market is enough.
One thing to keep in mind is that FF is backed by the Chinese company Leshi (or LeEco) whose CEO is Yueting Jia who also was on stage. Leshi started with online streaming service and then ventured into multiple businesses, smartphones, TVs, cars, etc. Jia's ambition is to have a unified ecosystem across all products of the group. That's why during FF's presentation they were stressing all the bells and whistles. Jia wants you to watch his online streaming contents while driving the car (or the car driving itself) so he can make money.

Another note is Leshi is in serious cash crunch right now. Jia publicly confirmed it and acknowledged the company "running too fast". Leshi is currently cutting employee and playing more on the defensive side. Jia also took large loans against his shares in Leshi, which was doing poorly and would be faced with a margin call if Leshi did not halted trading of its shares (yes public companies can do that with ease with an excuse of "preparing a major announcement" in China, unfair I know). Jia partially got away from the Chinese stock market crash in 2016 using the same trick, i.e., halting trading of his company's shares and resume it after macro stabilized).

Yesterday's presentation was more of an attempt to instill investor confidence in Leshi.
 
(first post, long-time lurker)
This is a bit confusing. The statement from Tesla says that the customers have fully paid for the vehicle and the delivery hasn't been counted against official Q4 delivery numbers. Where will the revenue from sales be counted in the Q4 quarterly call? Q1 or Q4?

There are some delivery regions where the customer pays the total amount before taking delivery. That revenue won't count in Q4 even though Tesla has the cash in hand.
 
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There are some delivery regions where the customer pays the total amount before taking delivery. That revenue won't count in Q4 even though Tesla has the cash in hand.

I'm in one of them. If you take "Direct Ship" you need to pay in full before Tesla will put it on a truck to ship to your house. Even without direct ship, I have done an ACH transfer and paid in full days before actually taking delivery. I think this is fairly common with Tesla.

Mike
 
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...I got 7 dislikes (the most for any post that I have ever made) because I said that they pretty much pulled the plug on all the demand levers this last quarter save a price reduction. ... but it was a miss by all definitions and understanding of the word.

FWIW, they're "Disagrees" and not "Dislikes." Apparently the market aligns with horseshoes and hand grenades.
 
I'm been reflecting on how my analysis of all of the good data crowd sourced here failed to forecast this delivery miss. What I realized is that we have some good indicators of demand, and of demand relative to production, but not of the production rate, with one exception. Going through the metrics:

- VIN counting - a good indicator of absolute demand. VINs are issued for customer orders and for inventory cars that Tesla expects to sell or which will replace existing demos that will in turn be sold. But that rate that VINs are issued does not tell us the rate at which they will be produced

- Tesla website wait times - a good indicator of demand relative to production. Wait times can increase because demand picks up or because production slows down and there is no way to tell which it is.

- ev-cpo historical data - shows how many inventory cars are being sold relative to prior quarters, but does not capture all of the sales. Also there is no way of knowing what Tesla's planned mix is between inventory sales and custom orders.

- Factory tour observations - anecdotal evidence of the assembly line not operating during tours or the parking lot being relatively empty can tell us if the factory is running. However when it is running we have no way of knowing how many cars are being produced per day/week/month.

- Delivery spreadsheets - I was looking at these to see whether Tesla was pressing to deliver December orders before quarter end. When they did not I assumed it meant they had the quarter made. Come to find out it was because they didn't have enough production to fill those orders. However @bonaire pointed out today that the relative number of spreadsheet entries between Q3 and Q4 correlated highly to the absolute delivery numbers in those quarters. This will definitely be one to watch.

- InsideEVs monthly reports. Looks like these are pretty accurate. I thought they were missing the extreme geographical batching and the shift toward more inventory cars being sold. I guess not.

My other observation is that every time Tesla does a hardware transition they miss their forecast delivery number. This happened in 4Q14 when the D and AP1 hardware was introduced, in 2Q16 with the exterior refresh, and again this quarter with the AP2 upgrade. It just takes longer than Tesla believes to "slipstream" these hardware changes into the manufacturing process.

Contrast this with traditional auto makers who shut down the factories for weeks once per year for the model year changeover. My experience has been that if you try to order a new model year BMW in July in the US you are lucky to get it by Thanksgiving. The assembly line is shut down at least for August, starts producing the new model in September, and of course there is the shipping delay. Tesla believes they can do these kind of changes in 10-14 days and it just hasn't happened that way. Tesla, please do not refresh the interior until you figure this out.
Mass production is the ultimate goal that Tesla will for fact struggle with but rightfully so for a new kid on the block. I also agree that on this forum this is taken with a grain of salt by many. So far any semi-major change Tesla had production slow downs that we should all expect but not many do. For M3 I'm in the camp that is expecting a delay. If in fact true will have zero ramifications how I'm invested long. I just think it's okay to see faluts of the company and still love them. Why many always try to brush it off as it will absolutely never happen is beyond my comprehension.
 
I think my point was missed. This board continues to be an echo chamber only for those who want to see the positive aspect in everything this company does as if they can do no wrong and that all of their misses are the fault of outside forces. I got 7 dislikes (the most for any post that I have ever made) because I said that they pretty much pulled the plug on all the demand levers this last quarter save a price reduction. That warrants 7 dislikes? Please tell me, what other demand levers are there near term? the hope for a HUD?

I follow up with a post saying that as CEO EM better darn well care about capital appreciation for the other owners of the company, we the shareholders. Once you go public, it is no longer your personal piggy bank for other pet projects and clearly, he does care about the share price both short and long term, as he should. To speak as if EM can do no wrong, and to not call out and instead make excuses only perpetuates this. Tesla is no longer a startup, it is approaching a $40billion market cap. If they make promises or projections and they fail to deliver they should be held accountable, especially on an investors board. I just do not understand the hate/animosity that is spewed toward people with a contrary view that it is not all roses right now, but there is a ton of hope in the Model 3 if they execute properly. Is there not room for a moderate view?

clearly the market was not too spooked by this miss, but it was a miss by all definitions and understanding of the word.

I totally agree with your sentiment. I for one don't care if others Like or Disagree with my posts and would rather speak my mind. I pay more attention to the replies to my posts to learn in case I'm missing something.

I think a lot of demand levers were pulled for the sake of Q1 deliveries, supercharger pricing being the most important. I believe Q1 will be a very clean quarter with a lot of deliveries. There is a very high likelihood, HUD will make into production line in first 2 weeks of Q2. The public announcement will be made at the same time. So Q2 will have production/supply disruption again, but then again, market doesn't seem to care.

If you follow Silicon Valley at VC level, all the rage right now is Augmented Reality (AR) and Virtual Reality (VR)... I know through the grape vine that Musk was debating current AR/VR tech in autopilot team meetings way back more than an year ago. I haven't heard anything after that, nor do I know any detail. All I know is that Musk was interested in that tech. This was later proven out with public reports that Tesla hired hololens designer. I feel reluctant to hype this up. But I believe the HUD will be something truly ground breaking. Probably far ahead of anything out there, even outside of cars. I think it will propel some crazy amount of sales. But, it's all just pure speculation on my part at this point.

So Q2 and beyond (as EAP/FSD ramp up), we really shouldn't worry about demand... There are enough levers put in place to bridge the gap to Q2 as well. In summary, maybe not worth fretting over demand.
 
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