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Compare to the Volt
Old 04-03-2008, 05:37 PM   #1
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Compare to the Volt

I thought this article about the Volt's design was too interesting to fail to mention. The Tesla is even compared here. I was absoutely shocked at GM's testing of the batteries. Although Tesla is mentioned once in the article, I suppose Tesla didn't see a point in testing its pack 1,000 ways from Tuesday like GM is doing.

And I understand Tesla needed more dense packs for range etc...but wow, anyone ought to be impressed with GM, as ugly as their past reporting quarters have been.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:38 PM   #2
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A link would be nice:

Chevrolet Volt Update - Volt Setup - Auto News - Motor Trend
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:47 PM   #3
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How do you know Tesla didn't test their pack so thoroughly?



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Old 04-03-2008, 05:54 PM   #4
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Might help to have a link to page 1 even:
Compare to the Volt

I thought Tesla did quite a bit of testing with their pack, primarily with regard to safety.
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:25 PM   #5
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Tesla put a lot of time and effort into thoroughly testing the batteries.

It was the transmission that they didn't pay enough attention too, at least not until way too late in the development process. I think they are plenty focused on it right now.
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Old 04-03-2008, 09:23 PM   #6
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Yet one more try at the link:

Chevrolet Volt Update - Auto News - Motor Trend
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:04 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by BBHighway View Post
Tesla put a lot of time and effort into thoroughly testing the batteries.

It was the transmission that they didn't pay enough attention too, at least not until way too late in the development process. I think they are plenty focused on it right now.
Yep, I remember quite clearly Tesla did very extensive tests on their battery packs. After all, it's pretty obvious the public is a little nervous with more than 6800 laptop battery cells in the car after hearing about li-ion battery explosions, and I don't think many people would put their deposits down if the batteries went untested.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by stopcrazypp View Post
Yep, I remember quite clearly Tesla did very extensive tests on their battery packs. After all, it's pretty obvious the public is a little nervous with more than 6800 laptop battery cells in the car after hearing about li-ion battery explosions, and I don't think many people would put their deposits down if the batteries went untested.
That's my point, we're yet to see how the packs go. Tesla did it all in-house whereas GM outsourced, another obvious difference. And I never said Tesla didn't test the pack. I'm just impressed by GM's proprietary software and how they went about testing the TWO packs.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:12 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DDB View Post
That's my point, we're yet to see how the packs go. Tesla did it all in-house whereas GM outsourced, another obvious difference. And I never said Tesla didn't test the pack. I'm just impressed by GM's proprietary software and how they went about testing the TWO packs.
Ah, I see what you mean. GM's testing is more of a result in that they have a competition between two suppliers, they are using newer chemistry while Tesla is using very established conventional li-ion, and they actually have to supply a 10 year warranty, which involves probably more extensive testing than the 5 year life of the Tesla.

This pdf mentions:
"Upon completion of our design, we collaborated with an outside firm known for expertise in lithium-ion batteries to perform hundreds of tests to validate the abuse tolerance and effectiveness of our design."
http://www.teslamotors.com/display_d...terySystem.pdf
Seems like they did rely on some third party help, but most of the results obviously ended up internal.

But looking over the tests on the Volt batteries, there were accelerated life-cycle tests, climate (temperature) testing, and shock and vibration testing. I'm fairly certain Tesla did all of those kind of tests in one way or the other. Yes, we don't know much about the results, except they "passed".
This one mentions calendar and cycle life (makes it sound like they relied on the calendar and cycle life of the battery cells themselves, designed the pack to keep them at optimal condition and didn't sound like they did testing):
Tesla Motors - think
This blog post mentions temperature testing for the whole car:
Tesla Motors - touch
This blog post mentions shock and vibration testing for the batteries:
Tesla Motors - touch

The Volt testing doesn't really mention safety testing, but I suppose similar to how Tesla relied on battery cell specs to explain calendar and cycle life, GM relied on the safety specs of the battery cells themselves for safety (or more likely they tested safety, but didn't show it or Motor Trend didn't report, and just like it's more likely Tesla did do some battery life tests to ensure their claims are at least close). Tesla obviously had done safety tests, as mentioned in the same blog that talked about the shock and vibration testing.

The expectations of GM, a large mainstream automaker, is much more in that after 10 years the Volt is expected to STILL get 40 miles per charge. The Tesla is expected to have only around 80-70% of capacity after 5 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. But testing on both is still fairly extensive, with the Volt showing more of the testing process (pretty much unprecedented amount of exposure to the development of a vehicle by a major automaker, but obviously the Volt is also a very good PR tool, with the hype on it probably even more than for the Roadster).
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:55 AM   #10
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Think we're comparing depth of press releases rather than range and extent of testing methodologies.

A great deal of Tesla's ESS work is bound up in their "secret sauce" - the various proprietory solutions they have developed over the past six years for the electrical systems. The basic safety work is covered; pack durability in the real world remains an unknown for both manufacturers.

Any sports car will exert greater wear and tear on its component parts than a family saloon. We need to compare the Volt with Whitestar - and by the time that appears, Roadster customers will have conducted thousands of miles of real-world road tests and hundreds of recharges on Tesla's behalf.

Obviously GM only needs to be able to claim modest mpg improvements, so they can afford to drive the generator system harder to reduce the depth of discharge on each battery pack.

Even so, it will be interesting to see if the Volt can hit its 40 mile battery-only claim. With an aluminium and carbon fibre car, Tesla can get 245 miles from 53kWh on the EPA Highway. That's about 4.6 miles/kWh of saloon-like motoring behaviour. So an aluminium and carbon fibre Volt (ha!) using only 8 kWh should get about 37 miles.

Except that the Volt (and Whitestar) will be heavier.

GM are going to have to use more of the Volt's 16 kWh energy storage capacity to hit that 40 mile range. Which will reduce calendar life.
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