Encouraging Development of Charging Infrastructure - What Works?

bonnie1194 said:

A number of forum members have been instrumental in encouraging local municipalities, hotels, restaurants to install charging stations for EVs. What works?

On a personal note, I always ask hotels when making reservations (and when checking in) about charging for EVs. I take an extra moment to tell someone about why they should consider accommodating EV guests. I have also joined in with a few other forum members on a couple of occasions to fund the purchase of a Tesla HPC for installation in places convenient to us.

Ideas? Or what have you found works? How do we influence the installation of the right charging systems in the right places?

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Offer to pay for the cost for the installation of a NEMA 14-50 outlet. This tends to get the attention of the business almost immediately.

None of the Roadster EVSEs require an access card to activate.
Not so for many of the different types of new J1772s being deployed recently.
I have a Chargepoint card, Blink card, and considering a SEMAconnect card too.
It is a hassle to need to carry multiple different access cards. Also, it seems many of them plan to go to a monthly subscription fee based service.
That idea seems destined to fail if there are multiple competing systems all wanting you to pay a different monthly subscriber fee.

Telling a place to consider installing an EVSE is good, and letting them know that there could be some grant programs to help pay for it is good too, but having them get locked into a specific vendor's 'solution' may not be so good. So, with appoliges to Chargepoint/Blink/SEMAconnect, etc., I think we should encorage locations to offer "always on" EVSEs, and if they hope for $ do it through sales of goods near the EVSEs or their own parking fees.

Clipper Creek seem like the way to go for those that you can convince to install those.

TEG said:

I have a Chargepoint card, Blink card, and considering a SEMAconnect card too.
It is a hassle to need to carry multiple different access cards.

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I was at a Stanford symposium a couple years ago where Coulomb/Chargepoint founder and CTO Richard Lowenthal promised that they'd make the system work with the RFID tag in your key fob, so that you wouldn't have to carry around a card if you didn't want to. I guess that never panned out?

In the UK we are already well down this road. Someone recons you need 10 subscriptions and cards for national coverage, however the networks are finally getting it and realising pay-as-you-go is what we need. Not after learning the hard way and a lot of pressure from EV drivers.

doug said:

I was at a Stanford symposium a couple years ago where Coulomb/Chargepoint founder and CTO Richard Lowenthal promised that they'd make the system work with the RFID tag in your key fob, so that you wouldn't have to carry around a card if you didn't want to. I guess that never panned out?

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Not as far as I know, but of the "smart" EVSE's I find ChargePoint most convenient because you don't have to have your card. If you just setup an account and install the iphone (don't know if they have access from other phones) app you can use your app to do it. Or you can just call their 800 number and they'll turn it on for you. No such luck with Blink. So in spirit ChargePoint is closest to meeting that claim.

I agree that in most cases a dumb EVSE or NEMA 14-50 is plenty. The only time I do find the Chargepoint and Blink smart features useful is seeing if it's already in use or not. That saves me from having to run down to the parking lot over and over to find out when an EVSE has freed up at one of our company locations: GE has an office there as well, and their salesreps always have the EVSEs taken with their Volts.

dadaleus said:

Not as far as I know, but of the "smart" EVSE's I find ChargePoint most convenient because you don't have to have your card. If you just setup an account and install the iphone (don't know if they have access from other phones) app you can use your app to do it. Or you can just call their 800 number and they'll turn it on for you. No such luck with Blink. So in spirit ChargePoint is closest to meeting that claim.

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Oh, well that's not bad, then. Probably wasn't practical to make it compatible with various manufacturers' key fobs, anyhow. Also the key fob is likely to go the way of the dodo, eventually be replaced by the cell phone.

bonnie1194 said:

I have also joined in with a few other forum members on a couple of occasions to fund the purchase of a Tesla HPC for installation in places convenient to us.

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Hi Bonnie,

Can you elaborate on how this worked? How did you convince the host of the usefullness of a proprietary "charger"? Were there any legalities involved, liabilities, insurance, maintenance, etc?

Thanks.

Larry

bonnie1194 said:

I can speak to one - but there are others on the forum who can talk about the charger at Harris Ranch or convincing Malibu City Hall to install, etc. Specifically, six of us chipped in to purchase an HPC for Pioneer RV Park in Quincy, CA. The owners of the park paid for the installation (no convincing necessary when they realized we were donating a charger). No legalities, liabilities, insurance, etc. And they were kind enough to give the six of us 'free charging at the park for life' and put a plaque on the front of the charger as a thank-you.

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Wow! I hope they later considered it a success!

bonnie1194 said:

What works?

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KISS :wink:

Deploy simple, reliable, low cost charging at business locations where it makes sense. Ease the pain by donating the charging hardware and ask the site to pay for installation. Deploy two independent charging stations at each location for redundancy and to avoid the need for a reservation system. Ensure the charging hardware is modular and can be upgraded easily. Support all types of EV. Have trusted electricians available to counter any push back or high costs from on-site personnel. Plan for expansion. Allow the site to take ownership and responsibility for the charging hardware. Market the locations though all media types but especially social. Do NOT attempt to charge a fee for use but leave this to the site to decide (they will provide it free to drivers in almost every case). Avoid RFID, Credit Card, or other systems that reduce the reliability of the charging and complicate the management. Engage with EV drivers to ensure the locations get used so that everyone benefits.

Using this model we have built the ZeroNet network with 53 sites that are live today. This will quickly reach 100 sites over the next couple of months and we have a target of 500 in the UK.

Great write up, Kevin!

This is all that's really required in an EVSE. This is the 32A ZCW Mennekes verion, but the J1772 would be the same inside.




GFCI/RCBO, Contactor/Relay and a PWM control module.

So what's all the junk in all the others?

TEG said:

I have a Chargepoint card, Blink card, and considering a SEMAconnect card too.
It is a hassle to need to carry multiple different access cards. Also, it seems many of them plan to go to a monthly subscription fee based service.
That idea seems destined to fail if there are multiple competing systems all wanting you to pay a different monthly subscriber fee.

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Americans seems allergic to single-payer solutions.

Kevin Sharpe said:

KISS :wink:

Deploy simple, reliable, low cost charging at business locations where it makes sense. Ease the pain by donating the charging hardware and ask the site to pay for installation. Deploy two independent charging stations at each location for redundancy and to avoid the need for a reservation system. Ensure the charging hardware is modular and can be upgraded easily. Support all types of EV. Have trusted electricians available to counter any push back or high costs from on-site personnel. Plan for expansion. Allow the site to take ownership and responsibility for the charging hardware. Market the locations though all media types but especially social. Do NOT attempt to charge a fee for use but leave this to the site to decide (they will provide it free to drivers in almost every case). Avoid RFID, Credit Card, or other systems that reduce the reliability of the charging and complicate the management. Engage with EV drivers to ensure the locations get used so that everyone benefits.

Using this model we have built the ZeroNet network with 53 sites that are live today. This will quickly reach 100 sites over the next couple of months and we have a target of 500 in the UK.

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Hi Kevin,

Thanks.

In the US there will be at least an order of magnitude greater number of Volts and Leafs on the road than Tesla's. This has lead to the fear among some Model S reservation holders that if they donate to a standard charger that when they try to use it they'll be confronted by a line of Volts and Leafs. This may have prompted some Roadster owners to donate to Tesla High Power Connectors (HPCs).

Can you talk to the pros and cons of donating HPCs?

What about supporting the installation of high capacity 240v outlets?

Thanks.

Larry

Larry Chanin said:

...This has lead to the fear among some Model S reservation holders that if they donate to a standard charger that when they try to use it they'll be confronted by a line of Volts and Leafs...

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Can't we all share? You plan to use 'their' J1772 stations sometimes with your Model S too, right?

TEG said:

Can't we all share? You plan to use 'their' J1772 stations sometimes with your Model S too, right?

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Remember my point is predicated on owners donating to charger installations. It would be rather frustrating to pay for a charger if it turned out your access was severely limited.

Larry

Particularly if you sprung for 70A and the Volt/Leaf/Karma/Prius can only use ~15A.

bonnie1194 said:

Agreed, good write up, Kevin. Have you found that one approach works better than others when convincing businesses they should participate?

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First, try to identify businesses that are 'green' leaning and have accreditation with a 'green' travel organisation. These businesses are always looking for ways to improve their 'green' credentials.

Second, visit them with a Tesla and a more mainstream car such as the Volt or Leaf. They need to see that this is going mainstream.

Third, be persistent... however, understand that we are very early in the industry and most people simply don't get EV's.

Fourth, be professional because you are competing with companies that are trying to enter the Charging Station market.... ZCW has four full time staff working on this project so that gives you some idea of our commitment.

And finally, consider doing this as a charity or other non-profit organisation.... this will open doors :smile: