Karma -vs- Model S

[doug]

I wonder what effect, if any, the recent Tesla announcement that the Model S will launch with a 300 mile range (matching the Karma's full "extended range" while pushing into a similar cost bracket) will have on Fisker reservations. Fisker deliveries are supposedly a year earlier and, though a long time coming, the reviews are generally positive. But there are still some doubts about the drivetrain, and with it's higher cost and poor milage, I wonder if customers would wait the year for a Model S. Are there many trying to decide between the two?

[vfx]

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I wonder what effect, if any, the recent Tesla announcement that the Model S will launch with a 300 mile range (matching the Karma's full "extended range" while pushing into a similar cost bracket)

Great observation. I was wondering about Tesla's early timing. Fisker's recent press is a great reason for them to make a pricing - battery announcement right now.

[AnOutsider]

So let me see, I can pay $110k for a Teslat Roadster that goes 0-60 in 3.9s and has a range of 220 miles or I can pay $96k for a Fisker to go "60 mph in 7.9 seconds and ... about 50 miles"? I haven't been following Fisker at all so I hadn't seen this before. I think I'll stick with Tesla...

Not sure that's an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the S and the Karma are more accurate IMO (and Tesla still comes out ahead IMO, other than not being able to gas up if the need arises)

[vfx]

Not sure that's an apples to apples comparison. Comparing the S and the Karma are more accurate IMO (and Tesla still comes out ahead IMO, other than not being able to gas up if the need arises)

Considering the massive SUV-sized amount of carrying space in the Model S and the Roadster-sized trunk of the Fisker, I would not make that comparison either.

[AnOutsider]

REEV, then EREV, now EVER; I still call it a PHEV.

I hope the Model S does NOT have that much body roll in the corners

[Jaff]

Wouldn't CF have added 30-40% more to the cost of the car though? ...that price point would be way above the Model S...

He could have kept the same design and used more composites and carbon fiber. A 1k savings in weight could easily boosted performance (0-60 times) and extended range. a 100k car using steel and aluminum is disingenuous when weight matters.

I think Fisker wants a large margin on the Karma and a short turn around time to profitability.

[ljbad4life]

Wouldn't CF have added 30-40% more to the cost of the car though? ...that price point would be way above the Model S...

The price point is already waaay above a model s . it's in the same price ball park as the Roadster. I don't see anything in the Karma that is that expensive. The off the shelf GM ICE? The off the shelf a123 batteries? there was nothing specially design in the power train just for the Karma (quantum had the powertrain ready for military deployment).

I feel like Fisker padded tons of margin into the price of the Karma to become profitable very quickly.

If it wants to go head to head with the porsche panamera (like Fisker claims) it doesn't have neither the performance nor price (the slower Panamera that matches the Karma is almost 30k cheaper, the Panamera that matches the Karma's price far out performs it.... and in any instance the Panamera is roomier)

I will give Fisker tons of credit for the design of the Karma from the ground up. I like the car. excellent fit and finish, I just think some of the materials could have been changed for a vastly superior car.

[Jaff]

I'll bet a fully loaded Sig series with a 300 mile battery is within 15-17% of the cost of a Karma...a Roadster Sport loaded is waaay above the price of a Karma...

The price point is already waaay above a model s . it's in the same price ball park as the Roadster. I don't see anything in the Karma that is that expensive. The off the shelf GM ICE? The off the shelf a123 batteries? there was nothing specially design in the power train just for the Karma (quantum had the powertrain ready for military deployment).

I feel like Fisker padded tons of margin into the price of the Karma to become profitable very quickly.

If it wants to go head to head with the porsche panamera (like Fisker claims) it doesn't have neither the performance nor price (the slower Panamera that matches the Karma is almost 30k cheaper, the Panamera that matches the Karma's price far out performs it.... and in any instance the Panamera is roomier)

I will give Fisker tons of credit for the design of the Karma from the ground up. I like the car. excellent fit and finish, I just think some of the materials could have been changed for a vastly superior car.

[TEG]

Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

[AnOutsider]

Fisker Karma vs. Tesla Model S

fairly balanced discussion