All,
Some relevant background information: I live in a condo building. I am also on the HOA Board. Someone who parks their car very close to me in an underground garage is buying an EV of some variety, not sure which one yet. They are a renter who will be moving out at some point in the next year or so. I do not currently own an EV, waiting for the Gen 3 Tesla, per my signature. I am familiar with what is legally required to install some kind of EV charger or 240v outlet in the building. I am not an electrical engineer, I'm a software guy, minimal knowledge of power distribution, so forgive me if I get some terms wrong. I did speak to both the city office that handles permitting and also our building electrician whom I happened to run into yesterday. I spent some time today searching the internet for some answers, and made some progress, but there are still a couple unresolved questions that I have.
I noticed that in several other forums where this is discussed that it is often difficult to imagine the situation being described, so I'm including pictures of our exact setup. I'll follow the flow of the power and ask my questions along the way. Here is the set of 6 meters where the power from the building main transformer comes into the 6 unit distribution panels:
The city power planning guy I spoke with said that one thing they would have to check is to make sure that if the building installs some number of EV charging locations, that the main building transformer will be able to handle the added load. There are 50 units in the building, and the entire building is electric. When I asked him for an opinion as to whether the building transformer could be an issue he said most likely not, given the above.
Here is a closer shot of my meter:
There were two items the city guy was certain of, here they are:
1. He said that it would not be possible to install "new service", meaning an additional meter just for the EV, but they would replace my current meter with a TOU meter free of charge.
2. He said that there needed to be a 30A circuit breaker panel installed on the line that the EV is charging from.
He also said that I could think of the EV charging outlet as just another outlet in my unit, even though it would be in the garage. Presumably due to item #1 above.
I am very lucky in that as the wiring leaves the distribution panel, it goes right by my parking space prior to going up into the unit itself. Here are a couple shots of the conduit in question:
Before I spoke with the electrician, I was imagining the distribution panel with the 30A circuit breaker would be on the garage wall right under where the conduit bends. So at the bend, the conduit/power would be split off, with the wiring to my unit remaining in place, but a separate feed going into a new distribution panel with the 30A breaker. The distance from the meter to the bend is about 35'.
When I talked to the electrician, he didn't seem very keen on adding another panel. I don't even know if that is possible, so that would be my first question. In any case, he suggested that the best way to do this would be to simply run additional wiring from the current panel in my unit back down through the conduit to the bend and then bring it out and down to the new outlet. That way an additional distribution panel is not required. The second question would be, is this feasible?
The distance from the bend to my units distribution panel is about 35' more. Here are a few shots of my units panel:
The last shot confirms that the large top breakers are all 30A, and one of them may not be currently being used. So which is the proper way to do this, put a panel in the garage, or use the existing panel in the unit?
Next up is the actual charging hardware. In order to future proof and insure fast charging, I want to install a 240V outlet. If my neighbor ends up getting something that doesn't require that much power, I know of the 3rd party company that modifies the 120V charging cable to allow it to use a 240V outlet. I am assuming that the simplest install would be nothing more than a NEMA 15-30 outlet as seen here:
I know the Model S has an adapter that goes right into this. Several other forums have links to actual "charging stations" like this one for $699 at Home Depot:
Unless I'm missing something, this isn't really necessary, and the outlet alone will do. This guy looks to be hard wired, so there wouldn't be any chance of someone walking away with it like a cable laying on the floor. This also allows for timing when charging takes place, but don't most EV's now allow you to program from the car when you want it to charge? I know the Model S does. What are the advantages of installing one of these versus simply having a 240V outlet?
The $600 cost is not a deal breaker, so I might end up doing that anyway. The overall intent here is a couple things. I would like to go through the process to verify everything required. Also, some units parking spots are very far from their meters, in some cases the other side of the building. If I get one put in by my units parking spot, I can let any current/future EV owners use my space and charge off my charger. They could then offset my electricity cost as needed, minimal as it may be.
I briefly looked into EverCharge for whole building support running off the main building supply. Some searching here seemed to show this was not economical, so I'm wondering if indeed this is the least expensive way to get the first charger installed in our building. The electrician said that the cost using my units panel and a basic 240V outlet would be well under $1,000.
Thoughts? Any Pasadena area electricians lurking around here who would like to do this :smile:.
RT
Some relevant background information: I live in a condo building. I am also on the HOA Board. Someone who parks their car very close to me in an underground garage is buying an EV of some variety, not sure which one yet. They are a renter who will be moving out at some point in the next year or so. I do not currently own an EV, waiting for the Gen 3 Tesla, per my signature. I am familiar with what is legally required to install some kind of EV charger or 240v outlet in the building. I am not an electrical engineer, I'm a software guy, minimal knowledge of power distribution, so forgive me if I get some terms wrong. I did speak to both the city office that handles permitting and also our building electrician whom I happened to run into yesterday. I spent some time today searching the internet for some answers, and made some progress, but there are still a couple unresolved questions that I have.
I noticed that in several other forums where this is discussed that it is often difficult to imagine the situation being described, so I'm including pictures of our exact setup. I'll follow the flow of the power and ask my questions along the way. Here is the set of 6 meters where the power from the building main transformer comes into the 6 unit distribution panels:
The city power planning guy I spoke with said that one thing they would have to check is to make sure that if the building installs some number of EV charging locations, that the main building transformer will be able to handle the added load. There are 50 units in the building, and the entire building is electric. When I asked him for an opinion as to whether the building transformer could be an issue he said most likely not, given the above.
Here is a closer shot of my meter:
There were two items the city guy was certain of, here they are:
1. He said that it would not be possible to install "new service", meaning an additional meter just for the EV, but they would replace my current meter with a TOU meter free of charge.
2. He said that there needed to be a 30A circuit breaker panel installed on the line that the EV is charging from.
He also said that I could think of the EV charging outlet as just another outlet in my unit, even though it would be in the garage. Presumably due to item #1 above.
I am very lucky in that as the wiring leaves the distribution panel, it goes right by my parking space prior to going up into the unit itself. Here are a couple shots of the conduit in question:
Before I spoke with the electrician, I was imagining the distribution panel with the 30A circuit breaker would be on the garage wall right under where the conduit bends. So at the bend, the conduit/power would be split off, with the wiring to my unit remaining in place, but a separate feed going into a new distribution panel with the 30A breaker. The distance from the meter to the bend is about 35'.
When I talked to the electrician, he didn't seem very keen on adding another panel. I don't even know if that is possible, so that would be my first question. In any case, he suggested that the best way to do this would be to simply run additional wiring from the current panel in my unit back down through the conduit to the bend and then bring it out and down to the new outlet. That way an additional distribution panel is not required. The second question would be, is this feasible?
The distance from the bend to my units distribution panel is about 35' more. Here are a few shots of my units panel:
The last shot confirms that the large top breakers are all 30A, and one of them may not be currently being used. So which is the proper way to do this, put a panel in the garage, or use the existing panel in the unit?
Next up is the actual charging hardware. In order to future proof and insure fast charging, I want to install a 240V outlet. If my neighbor ends up getting something that doesn't require that much power, I know of the 3rd party company that modifies the 120V charging cable to allow it to use a 240V outlet. I am assuming that the simplest install would be nothing more than a NEMA 15-30 outlet as seen here:
I know the Model S has an adapter that goes right into this. Several other forums have links to actual "charging stations" like this one for $699 at Home Depot:
Unless I'm missing something, this isn't really necessary, and the outlet alone will do. This guy looks to be hard wired, so there wouldn't be any chance of someone walking away with it like a cable laying on the floor. This also allows for timing when charging takes place, but don't most EV's now allow you to program from the car when you want it to charge? I know the Model S does. What are the advantages of installing one of these versus simply having a 240V outlet?
The $600 cost is not a deal breaker, so I might end up doing that anyway. The overall intent here is a couple things. I would like to go through the process to verify everything required. Also, some units parking spots are very far from their meters, in some cases the other side of the building. If I get one put in by my units parking spot, I can let any current/future EV owners use my space and charge off my charger. They could then offset my electricity cost as needed, minimal as it may be.
I briefly looked into EverCharge for whole building support running off the main building supply. Some searching here seemed to show this was not economical, so I'm wondering if indeed this is the least expensive way to get the first charger installed in our building. The electrician said that the cost using my units panel and a basic 240V outlet would be well under $1,000.
Thoughts? Any Pasadena area electricians lurking around here who would like to do this :smile:.
RT