Installing 240v box outside garage

[pers785]

Hello,

New MSP owner with delivery next week. I have my breaker box in my garage but no current 240v outlets there. Contemplating having a 240v installed to a 50amp breaker but wanted to run a couple questions by the group.

1) I've had 2 electricians tell me since it would be an outdoor receptacle, they'd recommend (and might be code) to get GFCI. Had two other electricians say not worth the trouble and they wouldn't even pull permits for it. I've also read forum posts here saying GFCI shouldn't be necessary (and may even be problematic). Wanted to check again what everyone's thoughts are for an outdoor 240v receptacle and GFCI breaker.

2) I am likely parking my Tesla outdoor daily, and thus the outdoor 240v. However on the off chance that I park in the garage in the future, I was contemplating having a second 240v receptacle installed on inside of the exterior wall. This would allow one 240v inside the garage on the drywall, and a second on the brick outside. Obviously they both can't charge simultaneously being connected to the same 50amp breaker, which is irrelevant as we only have one electric car. But this might "future proof" any issues that arise if I wish to park and charge in the garage in the future.

Attaching a couple pictures. The red circle would be the ideal location of the outdoor receptacle.

Thanks in advance!

 

[ucmndd]

GFI breakers are required for EV charging outlets by code.

Get a wall connector. All-in it’s only very slightly more money than putting in a proper 14-50 and buying the mobile connector. Don’t rinkydink around with plugs in 2023.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I concur. A wall connector is the right call. When you add the extra cost of a 50A GFCI breaker plus the Mobile Connector, you might as well get the properly outdoor rated Wall Connector. And you can charge much faster too, 48A vs 32A.

And yes, GFCI is required by code for a receptacle, but not for a Wall Connector. And no, it won’t cause issues for a properly functioning EVSE like the Mobile Connector.

 

[ucmndd]

The math to do a proper 14-50:

Mobile connector: $230
High quality Bryant/Hubbell 14-50 receptacle: ~$60
50 amp GFI breaker: ~$100
Weatherproof enclosure, other misc bits: ~$30

Total: $420 plus wiring for a 32 amp charging solution.


The math for the wall connector:

Wall connector: $475
60 amp breaker: ~$25

Total: $500 plus wiring for a 48 amp charging solution.


You just spent $100,000 on a car. Don’t skimp on $80 to do things right.

 

[jmaddr]

Wall connector on a 60a circuit with no GFCI is the way.

And you cannot connect two receptacles or devices together on the same 240 circuit. Therefore your thought of putting one outlet in the garage, and one on the outside with both on the same 50A circuit, while logical, is prohibited by code. You will have to run dedicated circuits.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

...
Mobile connector: $230
...
Total: $420 plus wiring for a 32 amp charging solution.

I'm behind the times, I'd never realized the Gen 2 mobile adapter was knocked down from 40A to 32A.

...
2) I am likely parking my Tesla outdoor daily, and thus the outdoor 240v. However on the off chance that I park in the garage in the future, I was contemplating having a second 240v receptacle installed on inside of the exterior wall. This would allow one 240v inside the garage on the drywall, and a second on the brick outside. Obviously they both can't charge simultaneously being connected to the same 50amp breaker, which is irrelevant as we only have one electric car. But this might "future proof" any issues that arise if I wish to park and charge in the garage in the future.
...

My future proofing advice runs a bit against the grain from the standard "get a wall connector and be done with it", as I suggest you determine your specific driver/parking/vehicle situation and how likely the parking positions in and out of your garage will change, and if a permanently attached to one spot Wall Connector with the Tesla port will work. It could be optimal, but it may not.

Anecdotal Experience: My Tesla Model S has been parked in three locations - left side of garage, right side of garage, outside the garage. The "install a wall connector" approach would have worked for 45% of the time we've lived in the house, and would have left us with zero home charging options for our non-NACS EVs for Summer 2021 - present.

Full Disclosure: I did my "future proofing" by installing 2x NEMA 14-50s and 1x NEMA 6-50 in my garage in spring of 2016, when Tesla still supplied Gen 1 40A mobile connectors with purchase and the court of public EV opinion was "J1772 and CCS is the future, why is Tesla being stubborn and still using their own port." As we years later purchased a J1772-based charging EV, this worked out.

 

[pers785]

I'm behind the times, I'd never realized the Gen 2 mobile adapter was knocked down from 40A to 32A.

My future proofing advice runs a bit against the grain from the standard "get a wall connector and be done with it", as I suggest you determine your specific driver/parking/vehicle situation and how likely the parking positions in and out of your garage will change, and if a permanently attached to one spot Wall Connector with the Tesla port will work. It could be optimal, but it may not.

Anecdotal Experience: My Tesla Model S has been parked in three locations - left side of garage, right side of garage, outside the garage. The "install a wall connector" approach would have worked for 45% of the time we've lived in the house, and would have left us with zero home charging options for our non-NACS EVs for Summer 2021 - present.

Full Disclosure: I did my "future proofing" by installing 2x NEMA 14-50s and 1x NEMA 6-50 in my garage in spring of 2016, when Tesla still supplied Gen 1 40A mobile connectors with purchase and the court of public EV opinion was "J1772 and CCS is the future, why is Tesla being stubborn and still using their own port." As we years later purchased a J1772-based charging EV, this worked out.

Did this require 3 separate 50amp breakers for the 2x NEMA 14-50 and 1x NEMA 6-50?

 

[ucmndd]

Did this require 3 separate 50amp breakers for the 2x NEMA 14-50 and 1x NEMA 6-50?

Yes, EVSE receptacles must be on dedicated circuits.

 

[DayTrippin]

I think the current wall charger has a 24' cable. That will cover a lot of scenarios. Make sure it is on a 60 amp circuit. Additionally, if you go with a non-Tesla EV you can get an adaptor to use it with them. I use my wall charger some times with my electric Harley.

I also installed a Nema 14-50 as well. Sometimes I wish I had just done 2 wall chargers since they came out with an adaptor for other EVs.

 

[LLWS]

When power sharing became available with the Gen 3 wall connector this fired up my creative juices. Tired of occasionally needing to run the stupid cord under the garage door… I put a separate subpanel in the garage. Wired up a wall connector on each side of the garage, and installed a pedestal out beside the driveway with two wall connectors on the pedestal. All the wall connectors are wired individually back to the subpanel and they power share 48A. I can park in any possible configuration other than trying to recreate the Lambo scene from ‘Wolf of Wallstreet, and plug in.

Now granted, we have four EVs at the house which isn’t the OPs use case - but if you want the convenience of parking freely about the property, future proofing, charging a friend’s EV when they visit -power sharing with multiple wall connectors might be something to consider.

TBH - My neighbors made comments that I might need to register as a public utility, but I’ve charged up my friends cars from a Nissan Leaf to an SF90 while we were having a BBQ out back.

While I unquestionably got carried away, I feel like a good host to have easily accessible guest charging when my friends or family visit; since I talked most of them into an EV anyway.

So my vote is do both the garage and outside the garage so you’re all set and you can offer guest charging as part of your future proofing considerations.

 

[Rocky_H]

I think the current wall charger has a 24' cable. That will cover a lot of scenarios. Make sure it is on a 60 amp circuit.

What? Why? Why would you tell all people to "make sure" to do this. One of the very helpful things about the wall connector is that it is a variable setting device, and therefore is very useful for a lot of people's situations and use cases. If they only have enough capacity for a 30 or 40A circuit, then it's convenient that the wall connector is still a perfect choice. If people have enough capacity for a full 60A, then nice, but it's certainly not a requirement or must have.

 

[DayTrippin]

What? Why? Why would you tell all people to "make sure" to do this. One of the very helpful things about the wall connector is that it is a variable setting device, and therefore is very useful for a lot of people's situations and use cases. If they only have enough capacity for a 30 or 40A circuit, then it's convenient that the wall connector is still a perfect choice. If people have enough capacity for a full 60A, then nice, but it's certainly not a requirement or must have.

My point is to get the full benefit, and what I consider to be the main benefit, is the higher amperage. No real point dropping the extra coin on the wall connector if you aren't going to take advantage of it. Yes, there are some advantages but they pale in comparison to the 48 amps vs 32, especially if you have an S or X.

To that point, I never even both with my mobile connector since it is limited to 32 amps. I have a wall connector in a 60 amp circuit and a 40 amp EVSE into my NEMA 14-50. The portable stays in the trunk along with a selection of adaptors.

Buying the wall connector and running it at 32 amps is like buying a Plaid and leaving it in Chill all the time. Sure, it is an option, but maybe you should have bought a different tool. There are a lot of good, non-Tesla options that work pretty well to charge your Tesla now and can easily be used with other EVs. I do keep adaptors around to go between them all pretty much so depending who is visiting I can probably charge whatever they have.

Obviously, though work with what you have available. If not a 60 amp, then do what you can.

 

[Rocky_H]

Buying the wall connector and running it at 32 amps is like buying a Plaid and leaving it in Chill all the time. Sure, it is an option, but maybe you should have bought a different tool.

You are taking a very weird perspective on this that doesn't reflect what people are actually facing. Many people have situations where if they must get an additional 60A circuit, it just doesn't fit in the load calculation of their electrical service, and requires a large several thousand dollar upgrade. So telling people they must do that is unhelpful if they could have something just as convenient with a smaller circuit, staying under that threshold of the giant expensive upgrade. I said if people can do a 60A circuit, fine, that's nice, but not everyone has that available. It's not telling people to do smaller circuits for no reason.

 

[mongo]

Anecdotal Experience: My Tesla Model S has been parked in three locations - left side of garage, right side of garage, outside the garage. The "install a wall connector" approach would have worked for 45% of the time we've lived in the house, and would have left us with zero home charging options for our non-NACS EVs for Summer 2021 - present.

Say hello to my little friend...
https://shop.tesla.com/product/universal-wall-connector

(People also sell Tesla to J1772 adapters)

 

[DayTrippin]

You are taking a very weird perspective on this that doesn't reflect what people are actually facing. Many people have situations where if they must get an additional 60A circuit, it just doesn't fit in the load calculation of their electrical service, and requires a large several thousand dollar upgrade. So telling people they must do that is unhelpful if they could have something just as convenient with a smaller circuit, staying under that threshold of the giant expensive upgrade. I said if people can do a 60A circuit, fine, that's nice, but not everyone has that available. It's not telling people to do smaller circuits for no reason

Did you read my last line? "Obviously, though work with what you have available. If not a 60 amp, then do what you can."

People don't put enough thought into charging before they run out an buy one. Or do an accurate assessment of what they really need until it is too late. Or often they don't understand what they really need. If you have an S or X, drive a lot of miles, you are probably better served with the bigger circuit.

My point is for it to be on a 60 amp circuit if you really want to get the benefit of the wall charger. Otherwise not much point over the other charging options. I still stand by that remark. This is an S forum the higher amperage greatly benefits the car and gives you more flexibility. It will be greatly appreciated when you are trying to charge your car while at the same time trying to cool it or heat just before leaving.

Again, buy whatever you can afford or is convenient, but 60 amp will serve you better in the long run. If you have a 3 or Y, I'll still take the greater service to lessen my charge times. I made do sharing with a 30 amp dryer circuit in a rental house while one of ours was being built. I'd rather not do that again. Slower charging typically results in a less satisfactory ownership experience for a lot people.

So shoot for the 60 amp and then see where it lands. Maybe you drive 10 miles a day and can get by with a 110v circuit.

 

[29Rookies]

New member and learning....if I purchase a wall charger, I do not need a GFCI breaker? All I need is 240 to the charger and a 60 amp breaker at panel?
Thanks!

 

[Eric33432]

New member and learning....if I purchase a wall charger, I do not need a GFCI breaker? All I need is 240 to the charger and a 60 amp breaker at panel?
Thanks!

Well....yes, no GFCI needed, but you need an electrical service and panel with the capacity to add the circuit, 48 amps running for hours and hours can heat up a panel that has inadequate extra capacity. You also need some #6 THHN/THWN-2 wire (#10 for the ground) in conduit, some 6/2 MC cable, or some 4/3 (they do not make 4/2) NM-B (Romex) cable, all properly installed.