Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[aubreymcfato]

Not sure if it has been already posted, but this article from The Conversation is very interesting.
Tesla's business strategy is not chaotic – it's brilliant

 

[Christine69420]

Tired of all the Mach E talk? BMW just released the specs for their i4 platform:

The new BMW i4: the future of hallmark brand driving pleasure.

Some bits from the press release:

Fifth-generation BMW eDrive to be introduced for the first time in the BMW iX3 in 2020 and will also be used in the BMW iNEXT and the BMW i4 in 2021 – Advanced battery cell technology enables sporty performance and a range of around 600 kilometres in the BMW i4.

The electric motor developed for the BMW i4 delivers a maximum output of around 390 kW/530 hp, reaching the level of a V8 engine in current BMW models fitted with a combustion engine.

The design of the high-voltage battery developed for the BMW i4 is characterised by its extremely flat design and optimised energy density. With a weight of some 550 kilograms, it has an energy content of around 80 kWh. This gives the BMW i4 a range of approximately 600 kilometres.

BMW 4 Series Coupé and the BMW M4 Coupé (fuel consumption combined: 10.0 – 9.3 l/100 km; combined CO2 emissions: 227 – 213 g/km). In addition to the sporty, elegant design that is typical of a 4-door coupé of the brand, the BMW i4 is characterised by impressive performance features. The BMW i brand's first Gran Coupé accelerates from zero to 100 km/h in around 4.0 seconds, achieving a top speed of more than 200 km/h.

It can be used in plug-in hybrid models as well as in purely electrically powered vehicles and is designed for a charging capacity of up to 150 kW. This allows the high-voltage battery of the BMW i4 to be charged to around 80 per cent of its full energy content in around 35 minutes. This results in a charging time of around six minutes for a range of 100 kilometres.

​

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

Production delays for the Taycan’t apparently...

Tek.no - Tester, guider, teknologi

What happened to experienced OEM ?

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is an excuse given in order to cover up demand issues after their bait and switch....

 

[jerry33]

The design of the high-voltage battery developed for the BMW i4 is characterised by its extremely flat design and optimised energy density. With a weight of some 550 kilograms, it has an energy content of around 80 kWh. This gives the BMW i4 a range of approximately 600 kilometres.

They have to be driving at about 10% of the speed of the average BMW driver, plus run through all the stoplights.

 

[jkirkwood001]

Cheaper labor is always an advantage. [1]

Mach E will start at $43.9k or $45k including destination fee.

Over half of Americans don't give a rats ass about where their car is made [2] and many Midwesterners and Southerners consider California an alien land and not their kinsmen.

There is a significant percentage of Tesla owners that have never supercharged [3] and for many the CCS Network will be good enough.

Some people simply trust Ford more than Tesla. And have much higher degree of confidence that Ford will be around in 10 years. Plus, you can get the MachE serviced or repaired at any of 2100 Mace E certified Ford dealers vs 100 or so Tesla service centers and their mobile techs.

In the ICE age the best most reliable car did not have 100% market share. At most OEMs had 10% market share globally. BEV age will be similar if not necessarily identical.

Wow, Rob, you have at least three unsubstantiated assumptions there [1][2][3]. For example, cheaper labour sometimes produces worse quality product, so this isn't an advantage. I suggest you should say "In my opinion..." more instead of asserting these are facts to make your case.

 

[ZachF]

They have to be driving at about 10% of the speed of the average BMW driver, plus run through all the stoplights.

All the German companies use a totally BS range standard that I'm surprised they are still allowed use. The numbers given for the Mach-E (Which uses VW's MEP) probably have the same problem.

The Tesla model S Plaid using that standard probably has 1000km of range...

 

[Tslynk67]

That was a segment were a man knows he is wrong and just babels on and on without saying anything.
I am poorer for watching this.

This guy is a co-host of the show, right? I find it utterly astonishing that he should be allowed to make any comment at all when he has positions in a stock - same for all anchors and hosts. Guests is another matter, but they should consistently indicate if they have positions.

 

[Pras]

Production delays for the Taycan’t apparently...

Tek.no - Tester, guider, teknologi

What happened to experienced OEM ?

Right. This whole experienced OEM argument is a BS. They need new people and new skills. I wonder how they will service these cars in the same dealerships where most employees hardly can deal with software updates and electric motor.

 

[ZeApelido]

Interesting

Secretive energy startup backed by Bill Gates achieves solar breakthrough - CNN

 

[Swampgator]

Interesting

Secretive energy startup backed by Bill Gates achieves solar breakthrough - CNN

Another pie in the sky dream. Let's see them actually make cement at scale with this before we publish the big "breakthrough" article.

 

[bhtooefr]

All the German companies use a totally BS range standard that I'm surprised they are still allowed use. The numbers given for the Mach-E (Which uses VW's MEP) probably have the same problem.

The Tesla model S Plaid using that standard probably has 1000km of range...

#1, signs are pointing towards it not being MEB, and MEB being for a European-market model coming out in 2023
#2, I assume you're talking about either NEDC or WLTP. WLTP is actually the new standard that's less easily gamed. (It's still pathetic compared to the EPA cycle.) And, Ford's 300 mile claim for XR RWD is an EPA target, not WLTP. Their claimed WLTP range for XR RWD is higher, 600 km (373 miles).

The above statement is not factual.

Official Tesla Model 3 2019 safety rating

Official Mazda 3 2013 safety rating results

That's the previous-gen Mazda3, this is the current-gen: Official Mazda 3 2019 safety rating

Looks like it does rate higher in whatever EuroNCAP is assessing for crash safety in all categories, but not safety assist (crash avoidance).

 

[humbaba]

Interesting

Secretive energy startup backed by Bill Gates achieves solar breakthrough - CNN

argh! Now the hydrogen fuel cell afficianados have been given another "its coming" line

Heliogen said it is generating so much heat that its technology could eventually be used to create clean hydrogen at scale. That carbon-free hydrogen could then be turned into a fuel for trucks and airplanes.
"If you can make hydrogen that's green, that's a gamechanger," said Gross. "Long term, we want to be the green hydrogen company."

 

[FreqFlyer]

Can't wait for the Cybrtrk reveal. Finally no more Mach-E talk

Two new EVs debut and this place goes into Epileptic meltdown mode. At least 10 new EVs are going to debut in next 24 months (probably higher) and you are tired already? Oh just wait.

 

[elasalle]

I wouldn’t be surprised if this is an excuse given in order to cover up demand issues after their bait and switch....

that OR the specs/speed numbers were cooked ...

My hunch is every incumbent is stretching the truth prior to actual Production, to try and stop the Tesla Tide ...

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

Two new EVs debut and this place goes into Epileptic meltdown mode. At least 10 new EVs are going to debut in next 24 months (probably higher) and you are tired already? Oh just wait.

Folks have to remember, new EVs introduced in the market do not mean Tesla has a smaller piece of the pie - only that the pie is getting bigger. If the pie right now is 2% of car sales, and Tesla dominates with 75% of the pie, will things be better or worse when the pie is 10% of car sales and Tesla owns 50%? even 25%?

Tesla cannot survive owning 75% of 2% of the market. If EV sales do not grow YOY, Tesla will not either. Right now, my guess is that 5% of car buyers in the U.S. would consider an EV (I mean REALLY consider - not just ask about them). That number has to grow in order for Tesla sales to grow.

If Ford's Mach E helps educate Fox News readers about the advantages of electric cars, and even 10% are convinced, then that's a bigger pool Tesla has the potential of selling to. Most people will look at all options when spending $50k on a car. It can only help.

 

[humbaba]

A little bit of humor:

And heat up it will. According to IHS Market, there are 18 electric vehicles for sale in the U.S. now, and that number is expected to grow to 80 by 2022.

[1]

I know they meant "electric vehicle models", but it also shows the mistake in understanding the situation: somehow they think that the more models released by legacy makers the more competition there is.

As I haven't been keeping up and don't feel like looking ATM I don't have numbers to put to it, but with "only three models" Tesla sells more vehicles and makes more profit than the rest of the EV market combined -- and there are plenty of models there. This reminds me (yet again) of the smart phone situation where Apple has something like 10% marketshare, but around 90% of the profits. Poor Apple, they are hamstrung by only offering a small number of models compared to the vast array of choices on the Android side.

1) If Tesla and Ford Motor are about to wage war for the electric-car crown, you wouldn’t know it from this exchange

 

[Krugerrand]

Two new EVs debut and this place goes into Epileptic meltdown mode. At least 10 new EVs are going to debut in next 24 months (probably higher) and you are tired already? Oh just wait.

I’m not tired of the talk per sa. I’m tired of the disingenuous ‘this Mach-E (fill in whatever EV name you want) is a Tesla killer/going to give Tesla a run for its money/blah, blah, blah’.

Horse poo.

Ford copied Tesla and missed every single performance, efficiency, charging, system integration, pricing, cargo et al metric.

Aesthetics are subjective and personal taste can’t be helped, so I’ll concede some will find it pleasing to the eye.

When it hits the road and people get to drive it and live with it, then we’ll see how much Ford hit or miss even more.

When production and sales numbers hit in the next year? 2 years? 3 years? When recalls are issued. And so on, then we will be able to look back on these conversations and see a lot of people back pedal.

 

[canoemore]

Folks have to remember, new EVs introduced in the market do not mean Tesla has a smaller piece of the pie - only that the pie is getting bigger. If the pie right now is 2% of car sales, and Tesla dominates with 75% of the pie, will things be better or worse when the pie is 10% of car sales and Tesla owns 50%? even 25%?

Tesla cannot survive owning 75% of 2% of the market. If EV sales do not grow YOY, Tesla will not either. Right now, my guess is that 5% of car buyers in the U.S. would consider an EV (I mean REALLY consider - not just ask about them). That number has to grow in order for Tesla sales to grow.

If Ford's Mach E helps educate Fox News readers about the advantages of electric cars, and even 10% are convinced, then that's a bigger pool Tesla has the potential of selling to. Most people will look at all options when spending $50k on a car. It can only help.

Agreed. Still though - and regardless of whether all these newly unveiled EVs are actually competitive with Tesla's offerings - it makes me happy as an investor that Elon and the Tesla team have invested so aggressively in autonomy as the next major disruption. Innovation as the moat indeed.

 

[Swampgator]

If Ford's Mach E helps educate Fox News readers about the advantages of electric cars, and even 10% are convinced, then that's a bigger pool Tesla has the potential of selling to. Most people will look at all options when spending $50k on a car. It can only help.

Rachel Maddow, darling of the left and MSNBC drives a Ford pickup.

 

[Unpilot]

Rachel Maddow, darling of the left and MSNBC drives a Ford pickup.

Getting close to a rabbit hole.