More anti-ev gibberish

[Citizen-T]

I think we need to start seeing stats for what percentage of Model S owners also have solar systems before the general public is going to start to accept that the "long tailpipe" myth is indeed a myth.

Just to clarify: it is already a myth without a solar system on your roof, but that seems too hard to grasp for most. I think the solar system will be easy to grasp.

 

[JRP3]

Regarding EV resource consumption, this recent non gibberish article is worth looking at. Nick did a good amount of data mining to look at actual metals used in potential EV batteries.
EV Myths And Realities, Part 1: The Battery Crisis - Seeking Alpha

 

[Doug_G]

Regarding EV resource consumption, this recent non gibberish article is worth looking at. Nick did a good amount of data mining to look at actual metals used in potential EV batteries.
EV Myths And Realities, Part 1: The Battery Crisis - Seeking Alpha

Great article! And he barely even referred to recycling.

 

[Norbert]

And JP has already commented that he doesn't accept the numbers ("because I think your assumptions are gravely flawed"). This game is endless.

 

[stopcrazypp]

And JP has already commented that he doesn't accept the numbers ("because I think your assumptions are gravely flawed"). This game is endless.

Peterson's reference to assumptions is: " If you're happy ignoring global production data and assuming that 20% of global reserves of any metal will be available to make EVs there's not much I can add to the conversation."

The thing is Nick addressed "production" in his "production" section, so I think Peterson probably skipped that part because Nick's article really is a big hit against his.

 

[JRP3]

I don't expect Petersen to comment further, he can't bully and threaten since it's not his article and he has no valid argument to counter the data.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Sorry to keep on this.... but
I slander legal? All of JP's famosus libellus is pretty blatantly against Tesla

Tesla's Gift Box: Inefficiency Wrapped In Hype - Seeking Alpha
'You have two competing proposals on your desk. The first is from Self Sufficient Motors, which wants to build a fleet of thirty HEVs using high-power batteries from the factory. The second is from Tesla Motors (TSLA), which wants to build one Model S using high-energy batteries from the factory. '

a made up company vs Tesla?? why not 2 made up companies? why is Tesla an example in a generic argument he is making?
I always forget how efficient gasoline generators are at making power versus wind and solar/microhydro, maybe I will instal one at my house!

'Disclosure: I have no direct or indirect interest in Tesla and nothing to gain or lose from its future stock price movements.' BS BS BS and is that why he changed his disclosure now?

Range anxiety and battery inefficiency is a joke how he is looking at it in the latest SA article. - I should have a 1/4 gallon tank in my car w/a 2 hp motor based on JP
why would anyone ever live in a castle when there are perfectly good refrigerator boxes for free!!

 

[stopcrazypp]

a made up company vs Tesla?? why not 2 made up companies? why is Tesla an example in a generic argument he is making?

I think the issue is his business plan sucks (unprofitable, not exciting enough to attract investors) enough such that no start-up will ever try to follow it which is why he has to make up a company. The key assumption he is operating with is that lithium resources are extremely limited and all companies should operate with the goal to use as little lithium as possible (which is completely BS at this point, esp. with the target volumes that Tesla has). So the only thing he can do is make up numbers and companies.

 

[Citizen-T]

I was blown away by this article. I hope the rest are as thorough.

 

[JRP3]

The key assumption he is operating with is that lithium resources are extremely limited and all companies should operate with the goal to use as little lithium as possible (which is completely BS at this point, esp. with the target volumes that Tesla has).

Actually he targets other elements besides lithium, mainly cobalt. Even he admits that lithium itself will not be in short supply.

 

[rolosrevenge]

This is more my kind of article. It cites peer reviewed sources instead of just spouting drivel. Amazingly, when actual, credible facts are presented, the picture for EVs becomes much better. Who would have thought

 

[Norbert]

Actually he targets other elements besides lithium, mainly cobalt. Even he admits that lithium itself will not be in short supply.

I think Panasonic is changing from cobalt to silicium (or something like that).

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think Panasonic is changing from cobalt to silicium (or something like that).

Panasonic is changing from a carbon anode to a silicon anode, but I have never heard of silicium. The newest NCR18650A cells used in the 85kWh Model S uses a LiNiCoAlO2 cathode according to Nick's article. And it uses 0.278kg/kWh of cobalt vs 2.3810kg/kWh for the standard LiCoO2 cathode, or 8.5x less!

 

[Norbert]

Panasonic is changing from a carbon anode to a silicon anode, but I have never heard of silicium.

The online dictionaries tell me silicium is a "rare name for silicon"... (not so rare where I come from )

 

[stopcrazypp]

Actually he targets other elements besides lithium, mainly cobalt. Even he admits that lithium itself will not be in short supply.

Because of cobalt's volatility, it shouldn't even be considered for his power optimized lithium cells for hybrids. Manganese and iron phosphate cells are the types used for high power application because they are a lot more stable.

 

[JRP3]

Are you suggesting that Mr. P doesn't actually know what he's talking about? Like when he pretends the Prius using NiMH is in competition for resources with EV's using Li cells.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

Who was it that said Jalopnik had a beef with Tesla?

Why You Shouldn't Trust Any Early Tesla Model S Reviews

 

[AnOutsider]

More sour grapes. Yes, let's give these "journalists" a week with each car and delay the Get Amped tour or deliveries to paying customers. I'm sure they'd jump at 10 minutes -- it sounds like they weren't offered.

*edit* first comment:

do you insist on emptying the tank on every ICE powered car you test?

with all of jalopnik's history of tesla bashing, for no good reason... it'd be a cold day in hell before i gave a *sugar* what you thought.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Who was it that said Jalopnik had a beef with Tesla?

Why You Shouldn't Trust Any Early Tesla Model S Reviews

Sour grapes. They don't blink an eye about all the "first drive" events most automakers do, but they find it extremely offensive when Tesla doesn't bend over backwards to give them a test vehicle (given their attitude I wouldn't given them a test vehicle either).

 

[vfx]

And shame on any small company giving their only product to someone who would say nice things about it so the entire company does not go under. A big company would never do that.

Scandalous!