More anti-ev gibberish

[Norbert]

EIA - Electricity Data

As of March 2012, coal is now down to 34%, from 42% in March 2011, and 46% in March 2010.

(The number for January 2012 was 38%)

 

[Norbert]

I'm guessing he's over stating the case since weather forecasting should give better advanced warning, but I'd like to hear comments from those who might know about solar integration. Does a significant amount of spinning reserve need to be kept running to support potential solar output drop?

First of all, he doesn't really seem to have explained why "traditional generators" would have to *increase* their output, let alone, why to 114%. (The latter may be a mis-formulated sentence, or not).

So he seems to try to create the impression that grid PV solar doesn't, in general, save any fuel at all.

Now that would be something, Steven Chu will be rather disappointed to hear that. But I'd rather think he doesn't know what he is talking about. I remember some claims the same commenter made about Lithium-Air. It's not even worth talking about.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

More useless drivel from JP. He complains about range anxiety, and then says the most efficient (PH)EV is the PiP, because the average driver could get multiple charges out of it in one day. WTH?

 

[Norbert]

More useless drivel from JP. He complains about range anxiety, and then says the most efficient (PH)EV is the PiP, because the average driver could get multiple charges out of it in one day. WTH?

It's his way of admitting that the Model S is able to address range anxiety.

 

[TEG]

9 electric car stalls, misses, and crackups - Electric blues (1) - CNNMoney

 

[NigelM]

Everybody has an ulterior motive.

 

[JRP3]

It sounds like we actually have a different view on EVs vs. Prius. Mine is that EVs are a better choice, today, than even the best hybrids, unconditionally. I think you agree too much with the framing of the situation implied in arguments like "marginal power", which have a limited location-and-time restricted value, but are blown way out of proportion, without examining their limitations.

We do indeed disagree. I think it is important to look at the actual grid response when and where an EV is plugged in. To be clear I still think an EV is a better choice today even if a Prius might have a lower emissions profile. We need to advance EV technology now to take advantage of future grid improvements. However that does not change today's reality.

 

[JRP3]

Somehow I don't think this guy cares about CO2 but 'clean burning' gasoline? Must be new.

posted some comments 'awaiting moderation'

I too commented, I don't see yours or mine.

 

[JRP3]

9 electric car stalls, misses, and crackups - Electric blues (1) - CNNMoney

Kent made an appearance :biggrin:

 

[dsm363]

CNN has really nosedived in the past few years. This CNNMoney article is a perfect example.

 

[JRP3]

But I'd rather think he doesn't know what he is talking about. I remember some claims the same commenter made about Lithium-Air. It's not even worth talking about.

Could be but I've found him to be a credible poster on a number of subjects. I'd like to know for sure rather than just dismissing it out of hand.

 

[ElSupreme]

Post concerning solar power impacts on the grid:



http://seekingalpha.com/article/633361-tesla-s-gift-box-inefficiency-wrapped-in-hype#comment-6280871

I'm guessing he's over stating the case since weather forecasting should give better advanced warning, but I'd like to hear comments from those who might know about solar integration. Does a significant amount of spinning reserve need to be kept running to support potential solar output drop?

I would imagine that you would attempt to build some pumped hydro near any large solar installation. That way you can just use your extra capacity whenever it comes up, but also if a cloud covers the grid you can ramp your hydro almost instantly.

 

[Norbert]

I would imagine that you would attempt to build some pumped hydro near any large solar installation. That way you can just use your extra capacity whenever it comes up, but also if a cloud covers the grid you can ramp your hydro almost instantly.

Perhaps more for shorter term fluctuations, there are also flywheels and underground cave air compression. But I think pumped hydro is more important.

 

[Norbert]

Could be but I've found him to be a credible poster on a number of subjects. I'd like to know for sure rather than just dismissing it out of hand.

They are currently building the world's largest solar PV plant, already having built many other PV plants. Wouldn't his claim imply a huge scandal if it were true?

 

[bonnie]

He's been found out.

JP's previoius disclosure, as found on this post:

Disclosure: I have no direct or indirect interest in Tesla and nothing to gain or lose from its future stock price movements.

JP's new disclosure, found on his latest posting:

Disclosure: I have no direct or indirect interest in Tesla, GM, Nissan or Toyota and I have nothing to gain or lose from any of their stock price movements. While I am a former director and current stockholder of Axion Power International (AXPW.OB), a micro-cap company that has developed a robust, affordable and serially patented third-generation lead-carbon battery for micro-hybrid, railroad and stationary energy storage applications, I can't see how the success or failure of a niche product like electric drive could impact the value of my investment in a company that's focused on much larger and more predictable mainstream markets.

 

[JRP3]

Wouldn't his claim imply a huge scandal if it were true?

Yes it would. My thinking is he's over stating the case, but there may be something to his point that a certain amount of spinning reserve is needed to back up the solar array, which would cut into the amount of actual support PV provides. Installed rated capacity is always higher than actual output for solar and wind, the need for spinning reserve backup would cut into that even further.

 

[Yggdrasill]

JP's got a good point in the last post. A car only needs around 40 hp to maintain highway speeds, so if you buy a car with 40 hp, you can use 100% of your investment.

While if you buy a car with 200 hp, you will only use 20% of your investment.

This clearly dooms the ICE with more than 40 hp.

 

[vfx]

And now a break from our regularly scheduled JP outing.

Electric Cars Merely a Green Illusion, According to New Environmental Book​

BERKELEY, Calif., June 11, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Hybrid and electric cars are neither clean nor green according to a new environmental book, Green Illusions (June 2012, University of Nebraska Press), written by University of California - Berkeley visiting scholar Ozzie Zehner. Green Illusions exposes numerous hidden side effects of new hybrid and electric cars, such as the Tesla, Leaf, Fisker Karma, and Prius. The analysis considers mining impacts, toxins, energy use, suburban sprawl and carbon footprints of production. From an environmental perspective, Zehner argues that hybrids and electric cars are no better than gasoline vehicles, a conclusion backed by a National Academy of Sciences report."Shifting from gasoline to electric vehicles is like switching a smoking habit from cloves to menthols," asserts Zehner. "It isn't acceptable for doctors to promote menthol cigarettes -- should environmentally minded people promote alternative fuel cars?"In a California radio interview yesterday, Zehner pointed out that the higher cost of electric cars reflects the greater quantities of fossil fuels used to build them. He argued that electric cars do not eliminate the negative side effects of vehicular travel. They merely shift the problems elsewhere.Most electric vehicle studies compare traditional gasoline fuel to electric car charging, which relies primarily on coal, natural gas and nuclear power. However, fueling activities represent only a portion of a car's total environmental impact. Zehner points out that the larger impact comes from manufacturing the car. The added copper, aluminum, rare earth metals and other materials necessary for electric car production offset any benefit achieved during the entire charging lifecycle.Even if mining companies clean up their operations and engineers increase battery storage capacity there is still a bigger problem looming on the horizon, argues Zehner. "Alternative-fuel vehicles stand to define and spread patterns of 'sustainable living' that cannot be easily sustained without cars. Suburban infrastructure maintenance and road construction induce ecological consequences beyond the side effects of the vehicle itself."Instead of subsidizing electric cars, Zehner advocates for lawmakers to support smarter urban design policies that focus on walking, bicycling and public transit. In a recent Grist article, Zehner points out that Congress is threatening to eliminate dedicated funds for bicycle infrastructure even in the face of a national bicycling boom - not to save money, but to direct more funding toward highway and road construction.He remarks, "If the U.S. Congress is serious about cutting costs, it may eventually have to stand up to thirsty car-culture lobbies and back infrastructure that pays durable dividends."Green Illusions: The Dirty Secrets of Clean Energy and the Future of Environmentalism (http://GreenIllusions.org) forms "a bold look at the downside of green technologies and a host of refreshingly simple substitute solutions," according to Kirkus Reviews.Green Illusions highlights and author biography are available at: http://GreenIllusions.orgPhoto: http://www.ereleases.com/pic/2012-Electric-Car-Charging-Station.jpgUniversity of Nebraska Press | ISBN: 978-0-8032-3775-9 | 439 pages | Non-profitContact:Ozzie Zehner, Author
(415) 501-0073Acacia Gentrup, Publicity Manager
(402) 472-3581
University of Nebraska Press[email protected] | [email protected]
http://GreenIllusions.orgSource: PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1e2GL)​

 

[Citizen-T]

JP's got a good point in the last post. A car only needs around 40 hp to maintain highway speeds, so if you buy a car with 40 hp, you can use 100% of your investment.

While if you buy a car with 200 hp, you will only use 20% of your investment.

This clearly dooms the ICE with more than 40 hp.

haha. This is exactly what my problem with his articles has always been. He focuses in on one aspect of the EV vs ICE question and decides that because the ICE is better in that one metric, Tesla is a bad investment.

I often think that I could make the exact same arguments that he uses to show that bicycles are better than ICEs (more efficient use of our resources, less impact on environment, technology exists, no investment necessary) and come to the conclusion that I should short GM, Ford, Toyota, and so on, because my analysis proves that the ICE is doomed.

 

[vfx]

Re : Ozzie Zehner, Author's book Green Illusions, I do agree that local design for more regional communities that favor cycling and electric public transit this does not solve the immediate problem of needing to get around in cities that are spread out. electric cars are the immediate answer to the distance problem and gasoline cars are marginally better at super long distance travel.

His materials scarcity argument is unfounded. The electric motor is the size of a watermelon. Compare that to a big V8 that puts out the same power. The copper to make an electric motor is not much more that a starter+generator+alternator has in them. There are no rare earth metals in and electric car that are not in a gasoline car are (even less if you include the catalytic converter)

And likely this book was written before the definitive UCS study showing that Electric cars are cleaner in 44 sates and about the same as the Prius in the remainder With waning coal use even that number is falling.​