Autopilot speed to an absolute value over the speed limit has been removed in FSD Beta 11.3.1

[ATPMSD]

I was reading about FSD and came across this for Beta 11.3.1:

“Speaking of speed, the option to set your Autopilot speed to an absolute value over the speed limit has been removed. You used to be able to set Autopilot to travel 10 mph over the posted speed limit, which would apply in all cases. However, you'll now have to use the 'relative' option, which lets you choose a percentage value to travel above the limit. So choosing a 15% offset will let the vehicle travel at about 35 mph in a 30 zone, while in a 65 mph zone, the vehicle will travel up to 75 mph.”

This makes we wonder if Tesla engineers get out much. Yet again Tesla is taking away something that is already in place and is, therefore, removing the ability of its customers to choose. Let’s hope they see the light before making this idiotic change.

 

[Mullermn]

You might need to speak to the idiotic regulatory body that required them to do it: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RMISC-23V085-7352.pdf

Section 3: ‘Finally, the option for an absolute Speed Limit offset in FSD Beta was removed; only the percent-based offset will be available.’

 

[Dewg]

*sigh* please read the NHTSA recall info. Regulators are clamping down, forcing Tesla to make changes. Some people set +20 so on 65mph freeway, the car does 85mph. But that means in 30mph neighborhoods it's doing 50, which is ridiculous, and worse in school zones.

 

[ATPMSD]

*sigh* please read the NHTSA recall info

Thank you. But not everyone reads every NTSB report. How do you guys track this stuff?

 

[JulienW]

It doesn't appear to be a specific NHTSA requirement but likely Tesla added it is a "sweetener" to improve speed changes. Likely Tesla sees an absolute as a potential problem since it can vary the difference so much at slower speeds. Having relative means you are staying consistent at all speeds.


Here is what the NHTSA recall actually said about speed.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF

 

[ATPMSD]

Interesting, this is actually one my issues with FSD.

From my post:

“With the beta turned-on, the car makes speed changes at nearly every speed limit sign, even when only running TACC. Not only is this annoying but these changers often alarm my passengers and sometimes surprise the cars behind. The car does not do this when the FSD is disabled”

After 5-weeks, I turned FSD Beta off!

After years of waiting I finally got my FSD Beta! After 6-weeks I turned it off. I found the promise of the FSD Beta to be overblown. Yes it is very cool that the car will navigate on city streets to a destination. But the car is far too timid to be usable. It is worse than driving with a...

teslamotorsclub.com

So with this change I can see why the NTSB and Tesla decided a change was in order.

Thanks again!

 

[qdeathstar]

You might need to speak to the idiotic regulatory body that required them to do it: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RMISC-23V085-7352.pdf

Section 3: ‘Finally, the option for an absolute Speed Limit offset in FSD Beta was removed; only the percent-based offset will be available.’

This change doesn’t make a lot of since from a safety perspective. I get that goin 10mph over in a 25mph is different from going 10mph when the speed limit is 65, but speeding is speeding…

 

[JulienW]

This change doesn’t make a lot of since from a safety perspective. I get that goin 10mph over in a 25mph is different from going 10mph when the speed limit is 65, but speeding is speeding…

Keep in mind that NHTSA is NOT a law enforcement agency. They are charged with highway safety only, not law enforcement. So going 10MPH over in a 25MPH zone is LESS safe than going 10MPH over in a 65MPH zone. So safety is all NHTSA cares about and/or regulates.

EDIT: Also I as stated in post #5 that NHTSA did not directly require this. Tesla offered this as a part of the fix. Here is what NHTSA wanted fixed and it was up to Tesla on how to do it.

NHTSA "Adjusting vehicle speed while traveling through certain variable speed zones, based on detected speed limit signage and/or the vehicle's speed offset seating adjusted by the driver."

 

[Mullermn]

EDIT: Also I as stated in post #5 that NHTSA did not require this. Tesla offered this as a part of the fix.

Yeah, but it's not like it's unconnected is it? Tesla didn't chuck in this change as a totally unrelated sweetener, the offset settings are specifically mentioned in the recall (https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V085-3451.PDF), which also notes that 'NHTSA and Tesla met numerous times to discuss the Agency’s concerns' and 'while not concurring with the agency’s analysis, Tesla decided to administer a voluntary recall out of an abundance of caution.'.

Sounds like it's a voluntary change in the sense of 'do this now voluntarily or be compelled to do something potentially worse later'.

FWIW the absolute offset setting is dumb for the reasons commonly cited.. the same offset at 20mph is unlikely to be useful at 70mph and a useful offset at 70mph is going to be dangerously large at 20mph. What would be useful (and actually more useful than percentage based offsets) would be banded fixed offsets so you could say 'give me 0mph at 20mph, 3mph at 30mph and 10mph at 70mph', but that would be rather complicated and ugly.

 

[clydeiii]

I have 5% offset and it works just great. I would never trust an absolute offset. Seems far too dangerous.

 

[YNoVA]

This makes we wonder if Tesla engineers get out much. Yet again Tesla is taking away something that is already in place and is, therefore, removing the ability of its customers to choose. Let’s hope they see the light before making this idiotic change.

Yeah, the Tesla engineers should've ignored the NHTSA recall and kept absolute value. Brilliant.

 

[E90alex]

but speeding is speeding…

I mean technically it is, but it isn’t.

As with everything in this world, it’s not just simply absolute binary black and white. Going 1 mph over the speed limit is technically speeding but it’s not as the same as going 10 mph over the limit.

The change makes complete sense from a safety perspective. Going 10 over in a 25 zone (eg residential street) is not the same safety risk as going 10 over in a 65 (eg limited access highway with no cross traffic). First of all the speed differential is 40% higher in a 25 vs 15% higher in a 65. And the lower speed limit is in place because there is a higher probability obstacles that can impede your driving and visibility such as cars backing out, children or pets running into the road, blind corners due to parked cars/fences/houses/trees etc.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What would be useful (and actually more useful than percentage based offsets) would be banded fixed offsets so you could say 'give me 0mph at 20mph, 3mph at 30mph and 10mph at 70mph', but that would be rather complicated and ugly.

Should just have a different % allowed for freeways and surface streets; would not be too messy.

The norm in California is 14-23% over the limit on the freeways. (80 in a 65 is allowed by the CHP (and nearly everyone travels 75-80mph except in dangerous situations or if there is some other reason to pull you over - going any higher than 80 is risky though).)

But obviously this is way too much on surface streets.

Currently splitting the difference. Fortunately many of my frequently driven higher-speed surface streets do not have enforceable limits (speed-trap law), though I think the law will be changing soon (not sure the details), unfortunately. Currently, it’s very nice to not have to worry about speed traps when driving at a reasonable speed, in any case.

 

[KArnold]

Absolute is less safe than percentage? Because peeps would inherently drive more slowly? Not sure that's accurate.

In my Midwest regional area most seem to drive the limit +5. You are safe from ticket almost all tickets and it's comfortable. Known manual adjustments are done in 55 MPH zones where most do 65/70.

With a 8% adjustment I'd be doing:

25 MPH -> 27 MPH, that's good.
40 MPH -> 43 MPH, ok maybe
55 MPH -> 59 MPH, like now would be manually dialed up
65 MPH -> 70 MPH, works

This probably works for me but if we end up adjusting multiple times a TRIP, I'd suggest that's more distracting.

Another thought - I set my alarm for 6:59 AM. For whatever reason that's drives my wife nuts - she would say "just make it 7:00 AM"! of course, I don't. I'm not going to tell her the TACC limit is now 27, or 43, or 59! But actually I think I can adjust with little difficulty.

 

[ATPMSD]

Yeah, the Tesla engineers should've ignored the NHTSA recall and kept absolute value. Brilliant.

Actually that is exactly what they should have done. Drivers need to be responsible and held accountable for how they drive, it is not the responsibility of your car to be your mommy. Tesla is continuously under attack with their FSD being blamed for poor drivers and for those who try to get around the safety systems already in place. Each time they cave they just feed the fire of those who want to blame the car, while the rest of us pay the price.

 

[Nosken]

They are restricting the safer FSD, and leaving old Cruise control in other cars alone???

 

[Dewg]

The norm in California is 14-23% over the limit on the freeways. (80 in a 65 is allowed by the CHP (and nearly everyone travels 75-80mph except in dangerous situations or if there is some other reason to pull you over - going any higher than 80 is risky though).)

I've never heard this before. I'd love to see your source for CHP allowing driving faster than the speed limit. Every officer I've spoken to says there is no buffer or grace zone for speeding.

Here is a CHP officer in an interview regarding this:

Know the Road with the CHP: If nearby cars are speeding, could you be ticketed for keeping pace?

If a group of cars on the freeway are going faster than the speed limit, could you be ticketed for keeping pace with the traffic?

abc30.com

 

[E90alex]

I've never heard this before. I'd love to see your source for CHP allowing driving faster than the speed limit. Every officer I've spoken to says there is no buffer or grace zone for speeding.

Here is a CHP officer in an interview regarding this:

Know the Road with the CHP: If nearby cars are speeding, could you be ticketed for keeping pace?

If a group of cars on the freeway are going faster than the speed limit, could you be ticketed for keeping pace with the traffic?

abc30.com

Clearly they’re not going to go on record saying you are allowed to drive 15-20 over the speed limit because that’s just going to cause a legal headache.

But in practice it’s commonly understood that they most likely wont bother you for those speeds, especially if that’s how fast traffic flow is going. Legally they can absolutely pull you over, but usually they wont bother to. Whether you want to risk that or not is up to you.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

I've never heard this before. I'd love to see your source for CHP allowing driving faster than the speed limit. Every officer I've spoken to says there is no buffer or grace zone for speeding.

Of course it isn’t allowed! Ah the perils of a misplaced parenthesis! Read the text though…clearly it did not make sense and needed a different placement…

“80 in a 65 is allowed by the CHP (and nearly everyone travels 75-80mph[)] except in dangerous situations or if there is some other reason to pull you over - going any higher than 80 is risky though.”

Just saying it can safely be done without a ticket (with the exceptions noted). And as the above makes clear, you can always be pulled over when doing so, presumably - just provides a pretext.

Obviously the basic rule always applies.

And equally obvious: you are very like not going to get pulled over or get a ticket if you’re going the same speed as everyone else and you are doing nothing else to stand out. At 80mph in safe situations this exact scenario is extremely common in California as I am sure you know.

If you exceed 80 all bets are off. Also 75mph is too fast in some 65mph zones! I’m talking wide-open freeway here of course. As a general rule.

I’ve never heard of anyone getting a ticket below 80mph which was not driven by some other factors. Have heard of many at 81, 82, etc.

Since these benign conditions are the norm for my freeway driving, I would like to be able to have a set speed of greater than 72mph apply when I am on the freeway (how I have this set now - 10%).

I would probably use 15% if I could set freeways separately. This would mean in more rare 70mph zones I would be at 80-81mph which I would like to stay below.

Here is a CHP officer in an interview regarding this

That is not what we are talking about here. We aren’t talking about a group. We’re talking about literally everyone in a continuous line of traffic in the fast lane. The scenario in this link is clearly applicable to a group flowing substantially faster than the flow of traffic (even though that is not quite how it was phrased). Have to read and interpret the meaning behind the literal words.

And as I said you can be pulled over for speeding if you’re speeding. That’s life. I’ve never had a speeding ticket in California (one in a different state) and I have been using this basic framework for 25 years. I could get pulled over any day though - I suspect it is most likely that it would be for inadvertently breaking my rule though.

I was pulled over for doing 81 or so in a 65 on 395 many years back - but the conditions were not safe for that (night, curvy). I was let go - CHP officer reminded me of black cows on a black road. It probably helped that I was slowing down and pulling over as he turned on his lights, before he even turned his car around. And my wife complimented him on his nice flashlight.

I also take great issue with this butchering of basic physics:

“Your force goes up exponentially with how fast you go," he explained.”

 

[Dewg]

Glad you agree it's not allowed. We can now move past the silly speeding discussion.