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Entire Supercharging Team Fired?

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News yesterday is that the entire 500+ person word-wide SC team has been let go. That is alarming. Why would Elon sack the execs and all the employees of this important part of Tesla's business? Could Tesla be selling the SC network off to a third party? Opinions? Other theories?

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I'm guessing this is going to greatly impact v4 rollout and upgrades which effects all those Cybertruck owners that just plopped down 100K for a worse charging vehicle than a 40K Model 3. The Supercharger network was the only really keeping me to Tesla at this point. Supercharging is a net positive income, not just in being the driving factor for purchase, but generates profit from operation.

Sure slim down the team, but eliminate it completely? Madness. Want to start cutting costs? Cut Gronk or that Tesla bot. No, these won't get cut because they are flashy vanity projects that burn up billions. Hell that gigapress R&D won't be recouped for a decade, but hey the supercharging network is the huge money burner.

And yes lets throw in a bunch of robotaxis that are "launching" in August 2024 which unless they are powered by gasoline or nuclear fission, will need charging.
 
The app clearly stated Mountain home by first, 2022, then later 2023. Call it an estimate or plan if you want. And it specifically got pushed. I have a hard time believing, when other DCFC's have come online in the area, that Tesla was prevented from constructing as stated as planned. looks to me like the delay in this case was precisely within Tesla's control
Tesla stations are typically multiple times larger than most DCFC stations, so approvals and installs may not be comparable. For example in my experience with residential installs, getting 400A instead of 200A can significantly change your install lead times.
 
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Whatever the ultimate reason for and outcome of this change, it also matters how it is done. The arbitrary and chaotic manner it is happening reflects very poorly on the leadership of Tesla and undermines confidence of those who might consider dealing with the company in the future, whether as customers, employees, suppliers, investors or business partners.
I'd rep this twice if I could.
 
I'm guessing this is going to greatly impact v4 rollout and upgrades which effects all those Cybertruck owners that just plopped down 100K for a worse charging vehicle than a 40K Model 3. The Supercharger network was the only really keeping me to Tesla at this point. Supercharging is a net positive income, not just in being the driving factor for purchase
It was a driving factor when it was exclusive to Teslas. Now you can buy an F150 Lightning or a Rivian and still have access to the Supercharger network, no need to buy a Cybertruck (in fact plenty did exactly that). So the value from that went down drastically as soon as that happened.
, but generates profit from operation.
Source for this? Most charge networks are net losers when the stations are amortized, even with high utilization rates (not over building). With Tesla's previous pace (overbuilding well ahead of demand), I would be highly surprised if the network has a quarterly profit once costs are factored in.
Sure slim down the team, but eliminate it completely? Madness. Want to start cutting costs? Cut Gronk or that Tesla bot. No, these won't get cut because they are flashy vanity projects that burn up billions. Hell that gigapress R&D won't be recouped for a decade, but hey the supercharging network is the huge money burner.

And yes lets throw in a bunch of robotaxis that are "launching" in August 2024 which unless they are powered by gasoline or nuclear fission, will need charging.
I do agree the way the layoff was done was a complete mess. Note however in case it has not been made clear, the maintenance team is still around, so not everyone is gone.
 
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Good video.

As I noted in an earlier post, Tesla has not accompanied the Supercharger layoffs with responsibly communicating its future plans to its customers who rely on the network. Based on what we know, and as further indicated in the video, it also has not responsibly communicated its plans to other auto manufacturers who have signed onto the Supercharger network or to the various suppliers and partners who are/were working on developing Supercharger locations; indeed, those remaining at Tesla do not even know how to get into contact with those partners or how to pay bills that are owing. Nor has Tesla responsibly communicated its plans about a key part of its technical infrastructure to its investors.

Whatever the ultimate reason for and outcome of this change, it also matters how it is done. The arbitrary and chaotic manner it is happening reflects very poorly on the leadership of Tesla and undermines confidence of those who might consider dealing with the company in the future, whether as customers, employees, suppliers, investors or business partners.

I suppose one could have said:

Following a successful industry-wide commitment to transition to the NACS connector, a sufficient number of Superchargers to currently support the majority of charging needs for Tesla vehicles, and additional chargers from other manufacturers currently being installed at an accelerating rate, we have made the decision to dramatically scale back the design, selection, installation, and deployment of Tesla Superchargers going forward. We will complete sites currently in progress, continue to maintain existing Superchargers, and adjust resources as necessary based on ongoing evaluations. In the early days of Tesla, we had little choice but to implement our own charging network to support our vehicles. As the market for electric vehicles and charging continues to mature, we have determined that it is no longer necessary to continue to utilize our currently level of resources for the expansion of a Tesla charging network - the time has come to remove the training wheels. These changes will result in an immediate reduction in the size of our Supercharger team. As a result, we will reduce the size of our Supercharger team by 90% effective immediately.
 
I suppose one could have said:

Following a successful industry-wide commitment to transition to the NACS connector, a sufficient number of Superchargers to currently support the majority of charging needs for Tesla vehicles, and additional chargers from other manufacturers currently being installed at an accelerating rate, we have made the decision to dramatically scale back the design, selection, installation, and deployment of Tesla Superchargers going forward. We will complete sites currently in progress, continue to maintain existing Superchargers, and adjust resources as necessary based on ongoing evaluations. In the early days of Tesla, we had little choice but to implement our own charging network to support our vehicles. As the market for electric vehicles and charging continues to mature, we have determined that it is no longer necessary to continue to utilize our currently level of resources for the expansion of a Tesla charging network - the time has come to remove the training wheels. These changes will result in an immediate reduction in the size of our Supercharger team. As a result, we will reduce the size of our Supercharger team by 90% effective immediately.
If Tesla simultaneously announced the integration of CCS charging locations into the navigation and route planning, I would accept this explanation. Specifically, if the navigation system could build routes with charging stops that can be a mix of Superchargers and CCS, with preconditioning prior to arrival at CCS locations. But there has been no such announcement.
 
Doesn’t that mean Tesla would have no problem continuing on with business without Musk?

We need to replace the entire board with people who aren’t always bowing down to Elon.

I sent in my votes in opposition to all the board’s recommendations.
the board is a joke. Elon's brother is on it (what exactly is his personal accomplishment? other than being Elon's brother) as well as one of Rupert Murdoch's sons (also incredibly accomplished...).
 
It was a driving factor when it was exclusive to Teslas. Now you can buy an F150 Lightning or a Rivian and still have access to the Supercharger network, no need to buy a Cybertruck (in fact plenty did exactly that). So the value from that went down drastically as soon as that happened.

Source for this? Most charge networks are net losers when the stations are amortized, even with high utilization rates (not over building). With Tesla's previous pace (overbuilding well ahead of demand), I would be highly surprised if the network has a quarterly profit once costs are factored in.

I do agree the way the layoff was done was a complete mess. Note however in case it has not been made clear, the maintenance team is still around, so not everyone is gone.
Supercharging profits:


Elon has stated so on multiple earnings calls as well. It's not crazy profitable, but it's steady income and income that going forward doesn't depend on Tesla's alone.

Tesla also charges anywhere form 15-30% more for non-tesla's to charge. There's still an advantage there.

Maintenance is still there, but they need to upgrade to v4 to get the true potential of the Cybertruck. Upgrades may not just be charging cabinets and stalls. Power may need to be pulled, permits all that stuff that the planning team does.

There's a lot of fat that could be cut at Tesla, Supercharging isn't one of them.

This shakes confidence in NACS as a whole and I'm sure the other car companies may back out of the switch. Time will tell.
 
I think I figured out the as yet unreported 4D chess plan here.

1) Tesla is releasing a Siri/Alexa like voice assistant for the car
2) Tesla is only a few months from Robotaxis, which are basically AGI
3) Tesla is "no longer compute constrained" so they can train all sorts of special models on a whim

Clearly, the plan here is that they are going to connect the two together and just use AGI to make phone calls to landowners to negotiate leases, contractors to install superchargers, politicians to get support, and the SAE to design standards. Of course it will also design and manufacture supercharger hardware as well. This will reduce costs massively and increase efficiency. The only issue is that it was trained off the current team, which was corrupt and lazy, so all Tesla needs to do is find a new training set, so that's what they are waiting to announce.
 
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If Tesla simultaneously announced the integration of CCS charging locations into the navigation and route planning, I would accept this explanation. Specifically, if the navigation system could build routes with charging stops that can be a mix of Superchargers and CCS, with preconditioning prior to arrival at CCS locations. But there has been no such announcement.
Technically the navigation system already has that ability: https://www.tesla.com/support/improving-access-third-party-fast-charging

I don't know if there are no CCS chargers in North America that meet the criteria, or if they just haven't rolled out support for it to North America yet.
 
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"A tip I've got from a finance exec: suspect widespread developers or mid management level kickback deals unearthed as a reason for the entire department fire in one day."
So...rank speculation that blames the people who had created the best charging network out there? I mean, it's possible, but before assuming the SC staff were criminals, I'd look for a more likely explanation.

By the way, Futurism quotes Bloomberg that the Superchargers are making money:

Others pointed out that the company's Supercharger department was actually making money. According to Bloomberg's estimates, the Supercharger network generated around $1.74 billion in revenue last year, roughly 17 percent of Tesla's "Services & Other" segment.

They might be conflating revenue with income but $1.74 in revenue is one heckova business resource.

Question: except for folks who don't have home or work charging, how many of us would honestly care much if the cost of Supercharging went up, even doubled? Tesla could also set up annual discount plans for people who need to use Superchargers because they don't have home or work charging. I wouldn't like it to be even a little more expensive than gas of course, but the value of being able to take road trips would still be huge and it wouldn't impact me much since I have plenty of range to get around my local area day-to-day by charging at night. I really suspect that the price/demand curve is very exploitable if they really need the cash.

A couple of questions about opening up the network to competitors too: did they actually do that much? If I'm reading the nav map right, there's only one location in Oregon so far open to other brands. If I'm not reading that wrong, Tesla still has (or had) a firm hold on this huge market advantage. And even if it is or becomes completely open, isn't the huge lead Tesla has on the network itself a huge competitive asset?

I just don't see how there's a shred of business sense to this. If it's just to pivot the company it seems to make as much sense as turning a container ship by using dynamite off the port bow instead of just turning the helm to starboard.
 
Technically the navigation system already has that ability: https://www.tesla.com/support/improving-access-third-party-fast-charging

I don't know if there are no CCS chargers in North America that meet the criteria, or if they just haven't rolled out support for it to North America yet.
In my experience, the only 3rd party Level 3 chargers in the navigation system are those with Tesla plugs, not CCS. That number is close to zero. And going forward, I wonder if the people responsible for qualifying 3rd party fast charging were among those who were recently fired.
 
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Supercharging profits:

The article doesn't say there is profit, it is an prediction from some third party:
"Last summer, the energy research organization BloombergNEF predicted that Tesla could bring in $7.4 billion in charging revenue by the end of the decade, constituting some $740 million in profit—not a shabby side hustle for an auto manufacturer."

No numbers were given for actual quarterly profits right now or in the past (note that revenue and profit is different).

Elon has stated so on multiple earnings calls as well. It's not crazy profitable, but it's steady income and income that going forward doesn't depend on Tesla's alone.
Any link to the actual statement(s)? Does the statement include amortized cost of the stations and also the costs of personnel?

Tesla also charges anywhere form 15-30% more for non-tesla's to charge. There's still an advantage there.
You can pay a subscription to get the same rates and even if not, that doesn't play much of a factor. Just having access is a huge peace of mind. If I need a charge on the road, I wouldn't care about 15-30% more, especially when the final price still ends up lower or comparable to third party networks.
Maintenance is still there, but they need to upgrade to v4 to get the true potential of the Cybertruck. Upgrades may not just be charging cabinets and stalls. Power may need to be pulled, permits all that stuff that the planning team does.

There's a lot of fat that could be cut at Tesla, Supercharging isn't one of them.

This shakes confidence in NACS as a whole and I'm sure the other car companies may back out of the switch. Time will tell.
Depends on how they handle communication with the manufacturers going forward. They need to put someone back to doing that and continue working on integrating them into the network.
 
So...rank speculation that blames the people who had created the best charging network out there? I mean, it's possible, but before assuming the SC staff were criminals, I'd look for a more likely explanation.

By the way, Futurism quotes Bloomberg that the Superchargers are making money:



They might be conflating revenue with income but $1.74 in revenue is one heckova business resource.
That's revenue not profits, big difference. Profits is what matter to the stock market (which is why the stock cratered recently).
Question: except for folks who don't have home or work charging, how many of us would honestly care much if the cost of Supercharging went up, even doubled? Tesla could also set up annual discount plans for people who need to use Superchargers because they don't have home or work charging. I wouldn't like it to be even a little more expensive than gas of course, but the value of being able to take road trips would still be huge and it wouldn't impact me much since I have plenty of range to get around my local area day-to-day by charging at night. I really suspect that the price/demand curve is very exploitable if they really need the cash.
In a no choice situation what you say may be true. But with the industry switch to NACS and NEVI funded stations, Tesla will still have competition from third party networks. Tesla is currently keeping their NACS rates close to or lower than other third party options. Making it 2x may not necessarily be viable. Especially true when infotainment systema are starting to integrate both so drivers will have more transparency on which to choose (some may even automatically route you through less expensive options).
A couple of questions about opening up the network to competitors too: did they actually do that much? If I'm reading the nav map right, there's only one location in Oregon so far open to other brands. If I'm not reading that wrong, Tesla still has (or had) a firm hold on this huge market advantage. And even if it is or becomes completely open, isn't the huge lead Tesla has on the network itself a huge competitive asset?
Almost all V3s are open or will be open to third parties. You may be looking at the magic dock page, which is different. You have to click the "superchargers open to nacs". I see in Oregon, most of them are open to NACS.

https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=49.19900614418608,-117.96404152378906,37.04123363428023,-127.01677589878906&zoom=6&filters=nacs,delivery centers

Given there are no longer new V2s being installed, every new station installed will also be supporting third parties. So the ones remaining exclusive to Teslas will only get less and less.
I just don't see how there's a shred of business sense to this. If it's just to pivot the company it seems to make as much sense as turning a container ship by using dynamite off the port bow instead of just turning the helm to starboard.
 
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In all the years that Tesla superchargers have been around in my area, I have never, ever, seen a single station upgraded, either in hardware (ie. V2 to V3) or capacity by adding more chargers. And, there are dozens upon dozens of stations ranging from urban to V3 here. I’m thinking that’s just not what Tesla does.
 
In all the years that Tesla superchargers have been around in my area, I have never, ever, seen a single station upgraded, either in hardware (ie. V2 to V3) or capacity by adding more chargers. And, there are dozens upon dozens of stations ranging from urban to V3 here. I’m thinking that’s just not what Tesla does.
As Kyle from out of spec mentioned in his video, it’s a fairly big undertaking to upgrade a site almost as much as commissioning a whole new site.

It’s not just as simple as swapping the pedestal out. Would require electrical upgrades and potential digging for new conduits and new cabinets. Especially if adding more stalls.
 
In my experience, the only 3rd party Level 3 chargers in the navigation system are those with Tesla plugs, not CCS. That number is close to zero. And going forward, I wonder if the people responsible for qualifying 3rd party fast charging were among those who were recently fired.
Francis Energy is planning to install 8 charging stations in Kilgore, Texas, for example, with 4 CCS and 4 NACS connectors using NEVI funds. It will be interesting to see if these will be listed.
 
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Yawn. It can be anything but *not* Elon acting irrational. Fanboy 101.

There seems to be a lot of folks who think that everyone falls into one of two categories: blind fanboys who will like and defend everything Elon does and complete detractors who think he is ruining everything he touches. In reality, I believe the vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle.

(Note: I removed the actual poster of this message as I am not specifically calling out any one person or statement - just using it as a general starting point for the conversation.)

So how about this? Can we get a commitment on when the long promised and long overdue superchargers (such as in Mountain Home, ID, due originally in 2022 then in 2023 and now?)

One thing that has been consistently happening for years is frequent delays between initial "Opening In 20XX" and actual. For one (of MANY) examples, the one close to my house was first announced in 2018 but didn't open until 2022: Supercharger - Brea, CA - S. Madrona Ave. (LIVE 10 Oct 2022, 24 V3 + 24 L2 stalls)

In all the years that Tesla superchargers have been around in my area, I have never, ever, seen a single station upgraded, either in hardware (ie. V2 to V3) or capacity by adding more chargers. And, there are dozens upon dozens of stations ranging from urban to V3 here. I’m thinking that’s just not what Tesla does.

While not frequent, it does happen. At the Irvine, CA - Main Street location, it opened in December 2020 with 24 urban stalls and then added 16 V3 stalls in late 2023. While technically they didn't upgrade the existing stalls, this was definitely an upgrade to the site and an addition in number of stalls.

There have been other sites (such as one in Bartow, CA) that have had the number of stalls increased.