Xcel Time of Use Rates in Colorado

[MrClown]

This PDF showed there would really still be three rate periods:

Yes, three rate periods but only in summer. Winter is only the one rate - at least it's the cheapest one.

What bugs me is that they're raising the cheapest rate from the current TOU off-peak of 0.05413 to 0.05539 per kWh. Even the regular non-TOU residential rate is currently 0.05461 so it's an increase for everyone.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Yes, three rate periods but only in summer. Winter is only the one rate - at least it's the cheapest one.

What bugs me is that they're raising the cheapest rate from the current TOU off-peak of 0.05413 to 0.05539 per kWh. Even the regular non-TOU residential rate is currently 0.05461 so it's an increase for everyone.

The winter rate is good for some. It's not so great for those of us who've invested in solar and Powerwalls as it greatly affects the payback period.

 

[Zaxxon]

The winter rate is good for some. It's not so great for those of us who've invested in solar and Powerwalls as it greatly affects the payback period.

I would agree, although I'd change 'some' to 'nearly everyone.' Even those of us with substantial solar (not to your standards, but for example my 8+ kW) but no Powerwalls will likely come out well ahead if winter is completely off-peak rates. At least for my system, I'm a net consumer of a bit of peak and a bit more shoulder during the winter, so the fact that I'm paying off-peak rates for those is a net benefit.

I think the count of Xcel customers with enough solar to cover virtually all of their usage as well as enough storage to arbitrage a benefit out of the rates is fairly small. Like probably countable on two hands small.

 

[DavidL312]

This PDF showed there would really still be three rate periods:
View attachment 495730

Doesn't look great for me. I'm net positive during the workday as I've got my house idle power down to 300 watts.

They shifted the start of the shoulder two hours later. I produce pretty good power between 9 and 11, so that would be credited at the off-peak rate. And, the later start of the peak pricing will also mean less extra credit for the power I'm pushing to the grid.

Makes me wish I had a power-wall.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Doesn't look great for me. I'm net positive during the workday as I've got my house idle power down to 300 watts.

They shifted the start of the shoulder two hours later. I produce pretty good power between 9 and 11, so that would be credited at the off-peak rate. The the later start of the peak pricing will also mean less extra credit for the power I'm pushing to the grid.

Makes me wish I had a power-wall.

Yeah, we use virtually nothing during the day (but our idle usage is probably around 800 Watts) so we're able to export nearly everything during peak and some from the shoulder periods too. Usually our morning production goes towards recharging the Powerwalls. The Powerwalls make it so nearly all of our usage is off-peak but we'll really miss having peak year-round. I should create a spreadsheet to crunch the numbers before and after the change.

Yes, @Zaxxon is right. I'm probably in the minority...complaining about peak rates going away for 8 months of the year. lol

 

[Zaxxon]

Good problem to have, though. You'll just have to get a 300-gallon aquarium or something to use all that juice... Or maybe another Tesla?

 

[GalacticHero]

I did not get the email and just noticed this thread. I switched to the beta TOU plan when I bought my M3 at the end of 2018. I didn't even know they had that plan before I bought the Tesla.

I must be missing something, my Dec bill shows RETOU Off Peak to be $0.044400. Doesn't seem to match with the figures other are quoting.

The change will be a mixed bag for me. I don't have solar (yet) so no issues there, but have the M3 to of course start charging at 9pm. On non-work mornings I manually stop charging before 9am. If the rate becomes fixed during the winter season then I'll just start charging when I get home. For various reasons I'm still using Level 1 charging; so, can use the extra cheap charging time.

Not sure what I'll do during the summer with the new rates and the off-peak start moving to 11pm. I'm probably going to have to just accept the higher shoulder rate for the first part of my charge (or solve my issues for why I can't install Level 2 charging.)

 

[MrClown]

I did not get the email and just noticed this thread. I switched to the beta TOU plan when I bought my M3 at the end of 2018. I didn't even know they had that plan before I bought the Tesla.

I must be missing something, my Dec bill shows RETOU Off Peak to be $0.044400. Doesn't seem to match with the figures other are quoting.

The change will be a mixed bag for me. I don't have solar (yet) so no issues there, but have the M3 to of course start charging at 9pm. On non-work mornings I manually stop charging before 9am. If the rate becomes fixed during the winter season then I'll just start charging when I get home. For various reasons I'm still using Level 1 charging; so, can use the extra cheap charging time.

Not sure what I'll do during the summer with the new rates and the off-peak start moving to 11pm. I'm probably going to have to just accept the higher shoulder rate for the first part of my charge (or solve my issues for why I can't install Level 2 charging.)

You're right about the 0.044400, I read the wrong line on the bill. That is a significant loss for us on the beta program.

For your summer charging, the off peak starts at 10pm and extends to 11am so while you do have to schedule the charge to start an hour later, you get one extra hour of total off peak charging time overall.

 

[GalacticHero]

You're right about the 0.044400, I read the wrong line on the bill. That is a significant loss for us on the beta program.

For your summer charging, the off peak starts at 10pm and extends to 11am so while you do have to schedule the charge to start an hour later, you get one extra hour of total off peak charging time overall.

The time I have to leave for work doesn't change, so I don't get the extra hour back on those days, but can take advantage on the weekends.

Kind of bums me out. Basically for the winter period the rate is going back to the old flat rate number (slightly higher.) Only advantage comes from the TOU during summer rather than the tiered system. During winter I'll probably just turn of the charge timer and let it charge until at desired charge. Now, since I'm using L1 charging I don't replace the 50 miles I drive during a single cold evening charge; so, my charge level dribble down until the weekend when I get a couple days of charging in a row. I work 1 mile from Park Meadows so will pop over to the Supercharger for a quick top-off if a have a lot of driving in a week! [I really need to get the L2 charging at home]

 

[austhill]

Hey all--

This is exactly the thread I'm looking for. I'm planning on installing a Tesla Solar system in my home in Erie, CO with XCEL and the options are dizzying.

For background, my average monthly use is about 1670kwh. I'm planning on about a 13kW system. My average bill is about $225.

I'm considering getting a powerwall and going with the TOU plan.

Questions:
- Should I do the Solar-Rewards SREC plan? If not, what should I do with SREC?
- Should I do demand pricing instead of TOU? With a powerwall can I completely control my usage?
- Should I choose a larger or smaller system?
- Should I choose to bank my NEM or cash out?

So many choices and I have no idea how to determine the best options?!!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Hey all--

This is exactly the thread I'm looking for. I'm planning on installing a Tesla Solar system in my home in Erie, CO with XCEL and the options are dizzying.

For background, my average monthly use is about 1670kwh. I'm planning on about a 13kW system. My average bill is about $225.

I'm considering getting a powerwall and going with the TOU plan.

Questions:
- Should I do the Solar-Rewards SREC plan? If not, what should I do with SREC?
- Should I do demand pricing instead of TOU? With a powerwall can I completely control my usage?
- Should I choose a larger or smaller system?
- Should I choose to bank my NEM or cash out?

So many choices and I have no idea how to determine the best options?!!

1. If you sign up for SREC, you should get paid a fixed amount for each kWh that you produce. On our contracts, I think we get the SREC credits for the first 10 years and then Tesla gets them after that. Read the fine print.
2. DO NOT sign up for demand pricing. It can greatly increase your monthly bill. While you pay less per kWh, it's something like $15 * the peak kW used during the month. We have multiple Teslas and sometimes charge more than one at once. Last week, Storm Watch kicked in while a car was charging and we hit 24 kW at 6 am in the morning. If another car had been charging as well, we would've hit 35 kW. If we were signed up for demand pricing, we would've had a minimum bill of $360 just because of that one charge (or $525 if both cars had been charging when the Powerwalls started charging). With ToU and sufficient Powerwalls, you can virtually guarantee all of your usage is from the off-peak period. According to the Tesla app, 99.5% of our usage is billed at off-peak rates. The nice thing is that our solar produces a lot during peak and shoulder periods and Xcel gives us credits at those rates. I don't remember the exact costs but I believe they are something like $0.13/kWh shoulder and $0.20/kWh for peak. Since 99.5% of our usage is at off-peak rates (around $0.10/kWh), our peak production credits go twice as far and shoulder are about 30% more.
3. A 13 kW system is pretty big. What percentage of your usage did they say it would cover? I think our usage was 1600 kWh to 2000 kWh before we put in solar. Our original 16.5 kW system was estimated to cover 141% of our usage but we knew it wouldn't be enough. We had to wait a year and then added another 4 kW. While prices have come down, we're glad we put in as much solar as possible. We've had several multi-day grid outages since getting solar but really haven't had any outages thanks to our solar and Powerwalls.
4. We chose to bank our credits. They roll over every month indefinitely. Since I'm WFH and not driving as much, we have 5500 kWh credit so far this year. We can't get a refund on this but don't mind racking up credits as they will help us cover our electric usage from November - February when we get more snow, the days are shorter and our solar production is only about a third what we produce in the summer. We've had a surplus on our bills since March of this year.

 

[austhill]

1. If you sign up for SREC, you should get paid a fixed amount for each kWh that you produce. On our contracts, I think we get the SREC credits for the first 10 years and then Tesla gets them after that. Read the fine print.
2. DO NOT sign up for demand pricing. It can greatly increase your monthly bill. While you pay less per kWh, it's something like $15 * the peak kW used during the month. We have multiple Teslas and sometimes charge more than one at once. Last week, Storm Watch kicked in while a car was charging and we hit 24 kW at 6 am in the morning. If another car had been charging as well, we would've hit 35 kW. If we were signed up for demand pricing, we would've had a minimum bill of $360 just because of that one charge (or $525 if both cars had been charging when the Powerwalls started charging). With ToU and sufficient Powerwalls, you can virtually guarantee all of your usage is from the off-peak period. According to the Tesla app, 99.5% of our usage is billed at off-peak rates. The nice thing is that our solar produces a lot during peak and shoulder periods and Xcel gives us credits at those rates. I don't remember the exact costs but I believe they are something like $0.13/kWh shoulder and $0.20/kWh for peak. Since 99.5% of our usage is at off-peak rates (around $0.10/kWh), our peak production credits go twice as far and shoulder are about 30% more.
3. A 13 kW system is pretty big. What percentage of your usage did they say it would cover? I think our usage was 1600 kWh to 2000 kWh before we put in solar. Our original 16.5 kW system was estimated to cover 141% of our usage but we knew it wouldn't be enough. We had to wait a year and then added another 4 kW. While prices have come down, we're glad we put in as much solar as possible. We've had several multi-day grid outages since getting solar but really haven't had any outages thanks to our solar and Powerwalls.
4. We chose to bank our credits. They roll over every month indefinitely. Since I'm WFH and not driving as much, we have 5500 kWh credit so far this year. We can't get a refund on this but don't mind racking up credits as they will help us cover our electric usage from November - February when we get more snow, the days are shorter and our solar production is only about a third what we produce in the summer. We've had a surplus on our bills since March of this year.

Thanks! Tons of info. As an update— current plan from Tesla is a 16.32kW system with two PWs. Estimated production is: 20,300kWh which meets ~100% of my 1669kWh/mo usage.

My hope is to be almost 100% self sustaining with the two PWs.

As I read it, XCEL’s Solar*Rewards pays $0.005/kWh to buy your SRECs. Which for me should net ~$8.50/mo.

But if I use Peak Demand they actually pay a higher $0.0475/kWh (Xcel Energy - Residential Pricing Plans)

If I really expect to be self sufficient or overproduce, wouldn’t it be better to do Demand Price and get near $80/mo in SRECS? And hopefully have near zero peak demand because I can pull most of my usage either directly off solar or off my 2 PWs?

The alternative would be a standard ToU and I could sell at peak and buy at off-peak as needed, but I would either overproduce and sell it at the super low AHIC rate, or bank it indefinitely and never actually use it. Right? Is my logic off anywhere?

 

[austhill]

Actually-- this link may be more useful: https://cossa.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/solar-trade-partner-info-sheet_-pricing-plans.pdf

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Did everyone get the notice that the ToU rates changed on 1/1/21? Be sure to change your Powerwall schedules! I was surprised by this mailing. I knew Xcel was planning on rolling out ToU for all customers in the future but didn't realize they were cutting the peak + part-peak hours from 12 hours per weekday to only 6 hours per weekday for existing customers in 2021. We got the notice on 12/31/20 and I found it ironic that if you wanted to opt-out, they gave you a few hours to contact them. I don't think I would've been able to opt out anyways since we have solar.

As @Zaxxon mentioned, this change probably won't affect most customers negatively as it reduces the peak + part-peak periods...but for those of us exporting tons of solar during the day, it increases our payback period since we lost 6 hours of part-peak rate credits per weekday.

 

[Zaxxon]

You also lose 12 (!) hours of shoulder rate on the weekends, as it's 100% off-peak on the weekends now (was 9p-9a). I did get the notice. The off-peak rate did rise a little bit, though. I haven't done a detailed analysis to try to determine the exact impact.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

You also lose 12 (!) hours of shoulder rate on the weekends, as it's 100% off-peak on the weekends now (was 9p-9a). I did get the notice. The off-peak rate did rise a little bit, though. I haven't done a detailed analysis to try to determine the exact impact.

Yikes. I forgot to mention that. I guess that would be a total of 54 hours of part-peak were eliminated per week. Even worse for me...but better for others, I guess.

 

[Zaxxon]

Here's the chart that they really should make less difficult to find:



Off-peak rate jumped 15%, shoulder jumped 13-28% (summer/winter), peak rate stayed about the same. So yes, if I'm following it correctly, this looks like it's a significant net negative for folks with PV and EVs, as the overnight charging cost rises relative to the peak export arbitrage bonus.

 

[MrClown]

I think the shoulder period on weekends is still there and the asterisk on the $$ in the new rate diagram may be a typo. The text on their time of use page says this:

Mid-Peak Period

• Summer and winter weekdays except holidays, between 1 p.m. and 3 p.m.
• Summer and winter weekends and holidays, between 1 p.m. and 7 p.m.
• It is not as expensive to use electricity here, but try to shift appliances away from these hours to the Off-Peak period.

 

[Zaxxon]

I don't think that's correct. The settlement agreement is the final word, and it clearly states that off-peak is all weekend. Perhaps Xcel has some website updating left to do.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I think the shoulder period on weekends is still there and the asterisk on the $$ in the new rate diagram may be a typo. The text on their time of use page says this:

Mid-Peak Period

• Summer and winter weekdays except holidays, between 1 p.m. and 3 p.m.
• Summer and winter weekends and holidays, between 1 p.m. and 7 p.m.
• It is not as expensive to use electricity here, but try to shift appliances away from these hours to the Off-Peak period.

I don't think that's correct. The settlement agreement is the final word, and it clearly states that off-peak is all weekend. Perhaps Xcel has some website updating left to do.

View attachment 624684

Yeah, the letter I got via snail mail has "*Not included on weekends or holidays" for both part-peak and peak periods.