Why stores offer free EV charging? Not free gas?

What is the concept for shopping centers to have free EV charging? In theory it's just for customers, but no one is watching it or enforcing that it's customers only where it requires a validation. I think the only thing they can enforce is the hours the EV charger will work, like some shopping centers may shut them off at night so no one is gonna try get free electricity while the shopping center is closed at 2am.

Maybe someone lives very close to the shopping center and tries to charge for free every single night, but probably won't be practical to do it every single day. But there was an opportunity for me to get free charging nearly the entire trip while I was in AZ. I stayed at my friend's apartment in Glendale which is very close to the State Farm Arena. His apartment though had no EV charging and I really preferred charging overnight instead of waiting an hour each time at a supercharger. There were Voltas nearby, but that shopping center puts up barricades and has security enforcing for no car to be there after closing hours. But there was a free Chargepoint near the Carls Jr with no barricades and there was never a car there at night. So I was lucky and I got free 100% charging every single night we went back to his apartment. Pretty much got to commute everyday for free while in the Phoenix area with no stopping at superchargers because most our commutes were do-able with 100% round trip.

And how I got back to his apartment each night? I had my E-scooter in the trunk so I just use that to commute 1 mile from the apartment to the free chargepoint. So it was super self sufficient, no need to use his gas car or an uber to try get back to his apartment.

I also plan to do this while in Las Vegas, there are alot of free charging options there and I have gotten by getting a free charge the entire trip.

I did go to the Oakley outlet store once though so I guess having that free charging got me to spend some money. Plus I bought food at that Carls Jr. So even though I didn't intend to spend money at the mall, I still did spend money anyways.

I never saw another EV car there charging overnight, so it seems no one is really that interested in taking advantage of free charging at night. But if a gas station has free gas or insanely cheap prices by mistake (which has happened), hoards of people will start showing up until the gas station realizes their mistake. I never seen a shopping center give away free gas or have discounted gas stations to draw in customers. Maybe Costco does though, they give a slight discount on gas and they always got super long lines during prime driving hours.

However, level 2 charging is slow and doesn't really do much if its going to be 0-2 hours. I don't think anyone will force themselves to stay 6+ hours just to charge for free. But if there is free charging near a Dave and Busters, I can be there for 6+ hours because I'm an advantage player so I can actually get a decent charge. The only Dave and Busters I know that have free EV charging are San Diego, Northridge, Long Beach, and Las Vegas. So I get to profit from Dave and Busters and get a free charge. My other AP friend can't do that, he drives a Honda Civic and I'm always the one that ends up driving so he will win me tickets on my card at a profit. Or help me sell some my big prizes (by paying me and sell it later).

 

[father_of_6]

It's like not picking up the pennies and dimes dropped in the parking lot.

Related question:

Why don't retailers have employees walk the parking lot for lost coins? There's gotta be pennies and dimes out there!!

 

[EVer Hopeful]

Why don't forgers forge dollar bills?


Funnily enough, our local Tesla gallery is IN the local mall. They have (L2?) charging stations built into "their" part of the parking garage and they keep the demo vehicles there, but AFAIK, they're not available for mere mortals to use

We have a Kroger's near by with a couple of (EVGo?) stations, but they made the mistake of placing them near the door (like invalid slots) so they're generally taken by ICE vehicles. I'm sure it's a mere coincidence, but my informal survey says it's always a PoS ICE vehicle that's parked there too

 

[Sophias_dad]

mistake of placing them near the door (like invalid slots)

I think the more appropriate term is 'handicapped spots', unless I misinterpreted your meaning.

In fairness to Kroger, its probably really expensive to put chargers in some remote corner of the parking lot.

 

[EVer Hopeful]

Fair point; Probably a UK/US thing, or maybe I'm just showing my age

I would have thought it would cost the same regardless of where in the parking lot they were placed ... unless they have to run cable from the building. That would make a difference and on reflection is probably the case

 

[ElectricIAC]

Fair point; Probably a UK/US thing, or maybe I'm just showing my age

I would have thought it would cost the same regardless of where in the parking lot they were placed ... unless they have to run cable from the building. That would make a difference and on reflection is probably the case

Depends where the power source comes from. If it’s a decent size or high power install may it needs its own transformer, and an install from the main road is less painful with less disruption to the parking lot.

 

[vickh]

Yep. OP mentioned Volta (Volta Charging - The most utilized EV Charging Stations). I've used a bunch here and there.

I used ALDI | PlugShare for a bit when I was visiting So Cal.

What is Volta's business model? Those ads really pay the bills? 2 hr limit was not enforced today in AZ.

 

[ElectricIAC]

What is Volta's business model? Those ads really pay the bills? 2 hr limit was not enforced today in AZ.

They charge 30c/kw now at DCFC

The 240/48 or 208/48 still seem to be free.

 

[Exelion]

there’s a Volta charging station near here. And it’s always taken by the few asshats who live close by and use it as their personal charging space. You can always tell (not just because it’s the same damn car), but also because two vehicles pull up and once the charging starts, the driver then gets into the other car and the two go on to do other things. Yea, there’s a two hour limit but they simply get back to the car, unplug, replug and repeat until the car is full.

The lengths of inconvenience people do to themselves just for “free” things absolutely amazes me.

I’d rather the station charges $ to charge (at least the same rate as what i get at home) that way i know there may be an an available charger to use rather than deal with what I see there now.

Free charging really needs to go away!

 

[ElectricIAC]

Free charging really needs to go away!

 

[vickh]

there’s a Volta charging station near here. And it’s always taken by the few asshats who live close by and use it as their personal charging space. You can always tell (not just because it’s the same damn car), but also because two vehicles pull up and once the charging starts, the driver then gets into the other car and the two go on to do other things. Yea, there’s a two hour limit but they simply get back to the car, unplug, replug and repeat until the car is full.

The lengths of inconvenience people do to themselves just for “free” things absolutely amazes me.

I’d rather the station charges $ to charge (at least the same rate as what i get at home) that way i know there may be an an available charger to use rather than deal with what I see there now.

Free charging really needs to go away!

they could do Chargepoint, free but account based restrictions.

 

[RayK]

they could do Chargepoint, free but account based restrictions.

If you mean that ChargePoint will prevent people from simply ending the current charge session and then restart another one in order to bypass a time limit, that's not been my experience with both free and fee charging. When I had free charging at work, the employees had a special ChargePoint account which gave us access to the chargers (i.e., they were not publicly accessible; you needed to tag in to activate the station). We had a 4 hour time limit on the L2 stations before fees were assessed but there was nothing preventing one from simply stopping the session and restarting. I've done the same with a public DCFC station that I normally use (with a personal ChargePoint account) that has a one hour time limit before a $4/hr "parking" fee kicks in.

 

[vickh]

If you mean that ChargePoint will prevent people from simply ending the current charge session and then restart another one in order to bypass a time limit, that's not been my experience with both free and fee charging. When I had free charging at work, the employees had a special ChargePoint account which gave us access to the chargers (i.e., they were not publicly accessible; you needed to tag in to activate the station). We had a 4 hour time limit on the L2 stations before fees were assessed but there was nothing preventing one from simply stopping the session and restarting. I've done the same with a public DCFC station that I normally use (with a personal ChargePoint account) that has a one hour time limit before a $4/hr "parking" fee kicks in.

Good to know. Did you have to unplug physically? or from the app?

 

[RayK]

In both cases, free and fee sessions, all I have to do is end the session using the ChargePoint app or from the car's screen, unplug and then re-plug into either the same handle or move to a different station. Truth be told, I'm not entirely sure that unplugging is/was really necessary but I do it anyway. This resets the "parking" timer to 0 and I can continue charging until the next time ChargePoint would normally invoke the extra fee for going over the established time limit.

I've only done this a couple of times at the local DCFC station as an hour is usually good enough to recharge my car to 90%. There were more times I did this at work after the 4 hours of L2 time expired. As I pointed out before, I have two different ChargePoint accounts (RFID tags) in my name. The free one I used at work is only for the ChargePoint stations in the Samsung parking garage and will not activate any other public or private station and the personal paid account that I use in public.

 

[moa999]

there’s a Volta charging station near here. And it’s always taken by the few asshats who live close by and use it as their personal charging space.

Volta's equivalent in Australia and NZ (Jolt) provides 7kWh free per day (across all sites) and then charges (@ A$0.46/kWh about US$0.30) which I think is a reasonable compromise.

Mind you all single stall sites which I'm not a fan of personally due to the risk it's occupied.

 

[STS-134]

View attachment 893749

If you don't think free charging is a scourge, not enough people around you drive EVs. In the early days, it was great for those who could use it. Now, whenever I pull into a parking lot with free charging, I can get a EVSE probably less than 10% of the time. So while it's kinda cool that you can (sometimes, but rarely) get free juice to drive your car, it's more annoying that it's almost never available and can't be relied on, and in turn contributes to the fear people have about driving EVs (#1 is probably range anxiety, and #2 is not being able to charge when you need to). As it is, Yosemite offers free charging through some Rivian EVSEs and they're almost never available, because people park there and hog the EVSE all day charging to as high an SoC as they can, and people who are staying at hotels close to the park probably charge up there as well, because...well, why not, when it's free? As a result, instead of taking my Tesla to Yosemite, I took my PHEV. If they had a sensible option to pay say 40-60¢/kWh and $1-3/hour after charging stops (expensive enough that people will only take what they absolutely need to and then get their cars off the charging equipment), I could have driven my EV. And it's not like this just at Yosemite. It's like this at virtually every place that has free charging.

 

[Hiline]

If you don't think free charging is a scourge, not enough people around you drive EVs. In the early days, it was great for those who could use it. Now, whenever I pull into a parking lot with free charging, I can get a EVSE probably less than 10% of the time. So while it's kinda cool that you can (sometimes, but rarely) get free juice to drive your car, it's more annoying that it's almost never available and can't be relied on, and in turn contributes to the fear people have about driving EVs (#1 is probably range anxiety, and #2 is not being able to charge when you need to). As it is, Yosemite offers free charging through some Rivian EVSEs and they're almost never available, because people park there and hog the EVSE all day charging to as high an SoC as they can, and people who are staying at hotels close to the park probably charge up there as well, because...well, why not, when it's free? As a result, instead of taking my Tesla to Yosemite, I took my PHEV. If they had a sensible option to pay say 40-60¢/kWh and $1-3/hour after charging stops (expensive enough that people will only take what they absolutely need to and then get their cars off the charging equipment), I could have driven my EV. And it's not like this just at Yosemite. It's like this at virtually every place that has free charging.

I would rather charging stations implemented an increasing price curve. Say 20 cents/kWh for the first 2 hours, 30 for the next 2, 40 for the next 2, etc. This way, after several hours these stations become more expensive than DCFC. If someone really needs to charge, they can pay the high prices. If they don't, there are cheaper alternatives.

 

[Exelion]

I would rather charging stations implemented an increasing price curve. Say 20 cents/kWh for the first 2 hours, 30 for the next 2, 40 for the next 2, etc.

So people can just unplug and replug their cars at 1 hour, 55 minutes and continue getting $0.20 per kWh? People who hog these chargers are used to this sort of game. Volta tried to limit charges to two hours but people did exactly the above to get around that.

 

[ElectricIAC]

So people can just unplug and replug their cars at 1 hour, 55 minutes and continue getting $0.20 per kWh? People who hog these chargers are used to this sort of game. Volta tried to limit charges to two hours but people did exactly the above to get around that.

I’m not worried about those people, clearly they don’t value their time enough to make better use of it.

 

[Hiline]

So people can just unplug and replug their cars at 1 hour, 55 minutes and continue getting $0.20 per kWh? People who hog these chargers are used to this sort of game. Volta tried to limit charges to two hours but people did exactly the above to get around that.

I'm pretty sure there's a way to apply this limit by car. So instead of the first 2 hours in each charging session, make it the first 2 hours of charging in a day.

I’m not worried about those people, clearly they don’t value their time enough to make better use of it.

They still do damage to others though.

 

[STS-134]

I'm pretty sure there's a way to apply this limit by car. So instead of the first 2 hours in each charging session, make it the first 2 hours of charging in a day.

Cars do not uniquely authenticate to the EVSE, so people will just create multiple accounts and use them consecutively. Just charge the market rate for energy and charge for idle time. You can't game that system.