Who said Plaid is so good, Plaid+ is not needed?

[tomas]

Well, the problem is Lucid does not have 4680 and yet it has the prototype (or a pre-prod version) which runs 500 mile real world on a charge. What about Tesla? it cancelled Plaid+ with an unconvincing reason (at least to me). Is it because Tesla does not want to make the car or is it because Tesla simply can't with the technology on hand? Either way, Tesla is not the company it used to be back in 2014. Disappointed, really disappointed.
Also I'd rather think Tesla can't do the long range than does not want to given its long history of overpromising but under-delivering.

Not the same company they were in 2014? Correct. Profitable vs. struggling. Global vs limited geo markets. 8 products vs 1. Leading company in a meaningful market segment vs niche product. Etc. now, I miss a lot of things about 2014. It was about enthusiasts, innovation, customer goodwill… but I doubt there will be another ground up company making it to profitability. A successful Lucid product will be bought by an established marque now that they are all sprinting to get in the market.

 

[tomas]

Your range isn’t cut by 40% in winter that is one and two you switched subject pretty fast. Who cares what your ICe buckets can do and I personally don’t want to sit in the car for more than 2.5 hours without stretching my legs and walking.

Yeah, my own experience from years of winter driving in Wisconsin and Illinois is that once you get on the highway and warmed up, the hit is less than 20% on a long trip. IMO people who toss around worse winter figures either have no experience, or are exaggerating worst case, or are compounding cold weather with high speed and excessive heater usage to bend the numbers.

 

[Darmie]

I always consider that Range is King. If you only have 300 mile tank and a 100 mile day, it's hard to hover around the 50 percent. If you have 500 mile range, then you can hover around the 50 percent mark much better. There is more to it than just driving range. Remember, 80% became better than 90% when it comes to the SOC. I feel a higher range battery will provide more longevity to the battery pack. Now, where is that 500 mile Plaid?

 

[WhiteWi]

I always consider that Range is King. If you only have 300 mile tank and a 100 mile day, it's hard to hover around the 50 percent. If you have 500 mile range, then you can hover around the 50 percent mark much better. There is more to it than just driving range. Remember, 80% became better than 90% when it comes to the SOC. I feel a higher range battery will provide more longevity to the battery pack. Now, where is that 500 mile Plaid?

Same place as Semi, roadster and Cybertruck at the moment! Waiting for new batteries and factories to be built.

 

[tomas]

I always consider that Range is King. If you only have 300 mile tank and a 100 mile day, it's hard to hover around the 50 percent. If you have 500 mile range, then you can hover around the 50 percent mark much better. There is more to it than just driving range. Remember, 80% became better than 90% when it comes to the SOC. I feel a higher range battery will provide more longevity to the battery pack. Now, where is that 500 mile Plaid?

What?? Are we still freaking out about pack life with all the hard evidence? My 2012 S gets 250 miles, down from 265 new and equal to what it had in 2014. I don’t baby it.

IMO there are only a few legit use cases for 500 miles: driving long distances @75 mph and faster and still being able to skip chargers… the rare person whose daily drive is borderline for a lower capacity, and people without home charging who will supercharge once or twice a week.

 

[TexasTezla]

I also like the fact I am not spewing so much CO2 into the air as an ICE. I can live with charging for 30 minutes every 3 hours...good stretch and bio break!

 

[ucmndd]

If you have 500 mile range, then you can hover around the 50 percent mark much better. There is more to it than just driving range. Remember, 80% became better than 90% when it comes to the SOC.

At some point carrying around an extra thousand pounds of battery that you don't actually use becomes a losing proposition.

 

[Darmie]

At some point carrying around an extra thousand pounds of battery that you don't actually use becomes a losing proposition.

Very valid point. Haven't considered this but it makes sense.

 

[blackscraper]

Yeah, my own experience from years of winter driving in Wisconsin and Illinois is that once you get on the highway and warmed up, the hit is less than 20% on a long trip. IMO people who toss around worse winter figures either have no experience, or are exaggerating worst case, or are compounding cold weather with high speed and excessive heater usage to bend the numbers.

Well I live in suburbs of Toronto. It is quite easy to find historical weather in Toronto as well as Southern Ontario. I am actually not trying to "bend the number", but to ask for a typical winter day in southern Ontario is too much? 20F degrees with head wind 20 mph is very common in winter here and I don't ask for a toasting cabin but merely 18 degrees Celsius. You can have such or worse cases in Southern Ontario for 2wks or even more. Actually, worst case I ever experienced was in Jan 2018 (or maybe 2019). we had a prolonged arctic weather when daytime high lingering around low teens and midnight low in negative single digits. Northwest wind blowing at 25mph gusting to 40mph. My car had a whopping 50% range reduction during those days.

 

[WhiteWi]

Well I live in suburbs of Toronto. It is quite easy to find historical weather in Toronto as well as Southern Ontario. I am actually not trying to "bend the number", but to ask for a typical winter day in southern Ontario is too much? 20F degrees with head wind 20 mph is very common in winter here and I don't ask for a toasting cabin but merely 18 degrees Celsius. You can have such or worse cases in Southern Ontario for 2wks or even more. Actually, worst case I ever experienced was in Jan 2018 (or maybe 2019). we had a prolonged arctic weather when daytime high lingering around low teens and midnight low in negative single digits. Northwest wind blowing at 25mph gusting to 40mph. My car had a whopping 50% range reduction during those days.

As far as I remember Tesla warns against such low temperatures for batteries. I hope in the future battery tech will improve upon so people at far north can have better options.

 

[kizamybute']

A couple of points I'll touch on.

Cold winter weather, meaning under freezing temperatures, can absolutely reduce range by 40%. Given, part of that is likely due to the fact that in such cold weather, people use the heater more. AC drains some energy and reduces range, however, Heaters really suck up the range. Even in weather that's cold, but not freezing cold, I see very significant drops in range with the heater on. If you live in Canada or up that way, I absolutely would treat a car rated for 400 miles as one rated closer to 225 to 240 miles in winter.

Also, range isn't just about being able to drive further. As Nick said, his bladder can't go 500 miles anyway. I'm in the same boat as are probably a lot of people. However, anyone who owns and EV knows that these cars charge from 0-50% like gang busters. My Model S sees charge rates from the Level 3 Superchargers that exceeds 1,000 miles per hour in the early portion of charging. Drops way down into the 200's when it reaches over 60% and even slower once over 70% and goes at a snail's pace over 80%. As such, just because a 300 mile range car may be more than enough for most people, charging a 300 mile battery after a 280 mile drive will take longer than it will to put 280 miles of range back into a battery that's capable of 500 miles in range. Therefore, charging times will be much, much less than those with smaller capacities. I still make most of the same supercharger stops in my 2019 Model S that has a 360+ range as I did with my prior Model S that had a 235 mile range (after degradation, started off at 265), yet, in the prior car, I always spent over an hour charging. In the new one, closer to 35 minutes. Thus, for the same exact trip, I spend roughly half the time at the charger with my higher capacity battery, despite making all the same stops.

In addition, for current non-EV owners that still fear range anxiety, the longer the range car has, the more that will ease. All EV owners learn how to maximize the return on their battery. But, for those that have never owned it, all they know is it takes longer to charge than put gas in and worry that they'll run out of battery. Having much higher range figures, whether anyone actually uses it or not, will go a long way in convincing skeptics at finally making the transition to EV cars.

 

[WhiteWi]

weird my 16 S doesn’t take an hour to charge. 35 minutes max.

 

[Phlier]

the hit is less than 20% on a long trip

I know this is the Model S forum, but a Model 3 driver chipping in, FWIW...

That has been my experience, too, and I'm driving a 2019 with no heat pump. I set the cabin temp to 60 and use the seat heaters. Range loss isn't even enough to change my planned charging stops.

This is lower 48 winter temps, though, not the extremes of the Great White North.

 

[blackscraper]

I know this is the Model S forum, but a Model 3 driver chipping in, FWIW...

That has been my experience, too, and I'm driving a 2019 with no heat pump. I set the cabin temp to 60 and use the seat heaters. Range loss isn't even enough to change my planned charging stops.

This is lower 48 winter temps, though, not the extremes of the Great White North.

You bet Model 3 won't fare much better in Ontario winter. My coworker has a model 3 without heat pump. Once he took his family to Quebec on a winter day, normal one. As he described outside temperature was -5 Celsius, Wind actually blowing in favor of them. But for every 2 hours of highway driving (highway 401), they have to stop for good 45 minutes charging. It slowed down the trip significantly and from where he lives to Montreal it is 600KM distance and it took them well more than 8 hours without much traffic. I wouldn't imagine a typical ice fishing trip to Quebec in such a car. The typical trip incurs 850KM one-way and round trip will be finished in 2 days. Quebec is colder than southern Ontario.

Actually, North-eastern US is not much better. US is very big, weather is not always as mild as in California.