When will 100+ KWh battery become available?

[ion]

Interesting thing on my VIN 72000 MS 85D, when the battery gets low it limits the output power with an orange dashed line. Not so on my VIN 49XX MX 90 D. So makes me wonder if the MX-90 D has actually a bigger battery and a software unlock will be an option to purchase soon?

 

[sandpiper]

Hrm? 5%-10%/year from last year... not including advances in cell technology beyond that. Seems we're in line for a 100kW battery tout suite.

There are 2 triggers for my upgrade decision: AP2.0, and a 100kW+ battery. For me that means a 50-mile range increase.

And since the current 271-mile battery isn't worth but 175 miles in challenging conditions, we are nowhere near "enough* in my mind. Not close. In fact, one could make a case for a 600-mile battery (software locked to 500 miles). Living between 20% and 80% as a practical case with such a battery provides 300 miles of real range and *that*, folks would *approach* being sufficient across all seasons and all terrain in the US. Maybe.

I agree 100% with this. If you put a 150-160kwh battery in a MS, then pretty much every argument against EVs goes out the window. Until then there will still be challenges with very cold weather or having to do 2 way trips to/from remote locations.

 

[sandpiper]

Interesting thing on my VIN 72000 MS 85D, when the battery gets low it limits the output power with an orange dashed line. Not so on my VIN 49XX MX 90 D. So makes me wonder if the MX-90 D has actually a bigger battery and a software unlock will be an option to purchase soon?

That IS interesting. Although I've always wondered about the purpose of that orange line; it's not like you can get maximum battery output at any SOC less thank 90%. For consistency they line should show up at about 90% and drop continuously. Or it shouldn not be there at all.

 

[Bankroetlama]

I agree 100% with this. If you put a 150-160kwh battery in a MS, then pretty much every argument against EVs goes out the window.

you forget price $$

 

[ion]

That IS interesting. Although I've always wondered about the purpose of that orange line; it's not like you can get maximum battery output at any SOC less thank 90%. For consistency they line should show up at about 90% and drop continuously. Or it shouldn not be there at all.

Sandpiper, I don't know if this is this case, as the battery SOC drops, the cell voltages go down slowly at first then as it approaches empty the Cell voltage drops quickly with SoC decrease (a good indication of low % SOC). So at say most reasonable SOC the voltage is high enough so that when you stomp on it you make up for the slightly lower cell voltage with a bit more current to get the rated power. Now at low SOC the cell voltage has dropped so much that there is a current limit that prevents the rated power from being drawn from the battery. So if the extra "software locked" capacity is at the low end of SOC you would never get into the power limiting situation

 

[sandpiper]

Sandpiper, I don't know if this is this case, as the battery SOC drops, the cell voltages go down slowly at first then as it approaches empty the Cell voltage drops quickly with SoC decrease (a good indication of low % SOC). So at say most reasonable SOC the voltage is high enough so that when you stomp on it you make up for the slightly lower cell voltage with a bit more current to get the rated power. Now at low SOC the cell voltage has dropped so much that there is a current limit that prevents the rated power from being drawn from the battery. So if the extra "software locked" capacity is at the low end of SOC you would never get into the power limiting situation

I understand the point re: SOC and power limiting. My point, and my experience is that at 50% SOC I get substantially less output than at 90%. This has been confirmed empirically by others who have been monitoring the CAN bus as the SOC declines. So, why do I see the orange line show up at 20%ish SOC? It seems a bit arbitrary. There may be a bit of a knee in the curve at that point but the maximum output is certainly not available at 50, 60,70, 80.

 

[McMuggets]

When Tesla delivers your car, do they usually charge it to 100%? Got my P90D yesterday, charged up to 100%, but as I remember my 85 was only delivered charged at 70%. Perhaps a new 100kWh battery is in there? Does anyone know where we can look to find any labels?

 

[wdolson]

Look under the right front tire wheel well. You'll probably need to turn the wheels maximum to get a good look. The label on the battery pack is visible in there.

How much the battery is changed is probably up to the delivery people. They want to make sure you have enough charge to get home, but beyond that, they probably just charge it up however they charge it up. Mine was charged to 90%.

 

[McMuggets]

Look under the right front tire wheel well. You'll probably need to turn the wheels maximum to get a good look. The label on the battery pack is visible in there.

How much the battery is changed is probably up to the delivery people. They want to make sure you have enough charge to get home, but beyond that, they probably just charge it up however they charge it up. Mine was charged to 90%.

Thanks! I will check it next time I get a chance

 

[ccutrer]

When Tesla delivers your car, do they usually charge it to 100%? Got my P90D yesterday, charged up to 100%, but as I remember my 85 was only delivered charged at 70%. Perhaps a new 100kWh battery is in there? Does anyone know where we can look to find any labels?

Mine was at 100%. They were expecting me to drive around a lot that day doing... whatever with the new car. They were right. But I still got nervous with about 100miles rated range left. I'm over that now .

 

[FarmerDave]

Mine was delivered at 100%, which is understandable since even then I had to Supercharge to get home.

 

[travwill]

the 90 to 100 kWh battery will be a good improvement, but it isn't really a huge deal. The 90, or even 70 is just fine for most people for 99%+ of the time. Additional capacity at this point isn't really needed for most people and becomes an efficiency waste really - carrying additional weight around for that 1% road trip use? I mean, most people stop on trips anyways for other reasons so it isn't a huge hassle on those rare occasions for most.

 

[Seattle Tom]

We test drove an X a few weeks ago so I've been chatting with the salesman off and on since then. Last night. Mentioned the 100D as my preferred configuration. He said many customers have noted that desire from rumors - so many that they recently received an email saying it's more than a year away.

I've got no source besides a sales guy so grains of salt are necessary but it does line up with needing the gigafactory to make those batteries cost effective for Tesla. And the 90D is very recent so another upgrade so soon doesn't make sense.

 

[ccutrer]

the 90 to 100 kWh battery will be a good improvement, but it isn't really a huge deal. The 90, or even 70 is just fine for most people for 99%+ of the time. Additional capacity at this point isn't really needed for most people and becomes an efficiency waste really - carrying additional weight around for that 1% road trip use? I mean, most people stop on trips anyways for other reasons so it isn't a huge hassle on those rare occasions for most.

I dislike your post, not because you're wrong (200 miles range probably IS just fine for the vast majority), but because your attitude hurts yourself. If there is no demand for higher capacity batteries (while maintaining current weight and volume), then there is no incentive to improve batteries. Improved batteries allows smaller packs for the same range (which likely drops weight, so smaller pack again!), lowering price for everyone.

That said I also feel you're being shortsighted not viewing situations other than your own. We've had our X for two months, and have had two instances where not having a longer range has at least partially affected us. Once on a road trip where spacing between super chargers is ~150 miles (Tremonton, UT to Twin Falls, ID), and speed limit 80mph. We were charged to ~90%, but had to drive 5-10mph slower than we otherwise would in order to make it. The other occasion was a single day round trip to a mountain recreation spot, and no superchargers on the route. We made it no problem using up ~65% of charge. The problem is that original plans were for us to tow a trailer (one I have not previously towed, so am unfamiliar with how it would affect range). In the latter case, I doubt a 100kWh battery would have been enough. Maybe a 120. But really I'm thinking my ideal target is 500 mile EPA range (maybe software locked to 400-450). That should be enough "real world" range that you can plow through mountain roads at 83mph, 150 miles between superchargers, any any weather, without even thinking about range. Plus a better charge curve so that you only need to get up to ~70% SOC -- very quickly -- in most cases. In the trailer case, it would still require some planning and minor compromises, but not the must-get-to-100%-and-still-white-knuckle-it that is the current state of affairs.

 

[sandpiper]

the 90 to 100 kWh battery will be a good improvement, but it isn't really a huge deal. The 90, or even 70 is just fine for most people for 99%+ of the time. Additional capacity at this point isn't really needed for most people and becomes an efficiency waste really - carrying additional weight around for that 1% road trip use? I mean, most people stop on trips anyways for other reasons so it isn't a huge hassle on those rare occasions for most.

Of course you're welcome to offer your own opinions, but you should be careful about telling others what they want or need. Yes, 95% of the time, my 85 is more than I need. But that other 5% if critical; I couldn't keep the Tesla as my only car. Quite often, I travel where there are no superchargers and sometimes I don't want to stop for a 45 minute charge mid-trip; I find it a bit of a headache and so do other people. A 5 gallon gas tank in an ICE car is probably more than enough for most people most of the time. Yet the tanks are always much larger.

Once battery capacity is over 150, and once 300kw superchargers are ubiquitous, the headache will be gone.

 

[bxr140]

Once battery capacity is over 150, and once 300kw superchargers are ubiquitous, the headache will be gone.

Yup. And that will coincide with efficiency improvements which will further quell the headache. I'm hoping we can see a fair weather 5 miles/kwh at real world speeds (~75mph).

 

[ccutrer]

Yup. And that will coincide with efficiency improvements which will further quell the headache. I'm hoping we can see a fair weather 5 miles/kwh at real world speeds (~75mph).

I'm curious where you think the efficiency gains will come from? Just the weight dropped due to a more energy dense battery?

Tesla is already incredibly efficient converting stored energy to motion. You see major efficiency losses at higher speeds because wind resistance-- percentage wise -- starts to dominate the inefficiencies. In an ICE you don't notice as much because of other inefficiencies at lower speeds. Teslas are already class leaders in aerodynamics, so I don't really expect major improvements to come (at least not on the order of 50% plus -- I'd be happy to see energy usage go from 400-500Wh/mile down to 300, but I'm not holding my breath, and doubt we'll ever see 200 -- at least with an X going 75mph).

 

[Super_Popular]

the 90 to 100 kWh battery will be a good improvement, but it isn't really a huge deal. The 90, or even 70 is just fine for most people for 99%+ of the time. Additional capacity at this point isn't really needed for most people and becomes an efficiency waste really - carrying additional weight around for that 1% road trip use? I mean, most people stop on trips anyways for other reasons so it isn't a huge hassle on those rare occasions for most.

I would agree with this and not sure why people are being so defensive because what you are saying is true.

 

[ccutrer]

A 5 gallon gas tank in an ICE car is probably more than enough for most people most of the time. Yet the tanks are always much larger.

If you do the math (Gasoline gallon equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), a Tesla has a 2-3 gallon "tank". Imagine how much range we would have with a 12-30 gallon tank that ICEs have!

 

[sandpiper]

Yup. And that will coincide with efficiency improvements which will further quell the headache. I'm hoping we can see a fair weather 5 miles/kwh at real world speeds (~75mph).

There's not much efficiency to be gained. Electric drive trains are VERY efficient, the Tesla is very aerodynamic. You'd gain a little from weight reduction but not that much. Maybe 5% overall is still available. I struggle to see much more.