What would happen if you end up in water?

[DCGOO]

I agree. I have 2 Teslas. One with a shifter stalk and one I just bought with on-screen shifting. When alternating between them, I must admit it's not intuitive to move my hand up to put the car in drive and move it down to put it in reverse. Every other car I've driven was the opposite.

I'm sure I'll get used to it but right now, as a newcomer to it, I feel like Tesla's on-screen sliding car could be replaced with 4 fixed-position icons labled PRND, which is the industry standard. This would match what Tesla shows on their instrument cluster and on their charging tray,

Accidently going in the wrong direction could be fatal, as it was with Angela Chao.

The vehicle prompts you EVERY time what you need to do next. It even tells you what direction the car is going to move, if you set to auto-guess, with animations no less.

 

[Bill D]

The vehicle prompts you EVERY time what you need to do next. It even tells you what direction the car is going to move, if you set to auto-guess, with animations no less.

I don't disagree but in stressful situations muscle-memory often kicks-in. I read she was making a 3-point k-turn on the narrow private road next to the pond and it was very dark. I can imagine she instinctively down-swiped to put it in drive while her attention was focused on her surroundings.

It would be interesting to know if she had auto-guess turned on.

 

[GNFO]

She owned the pond!
Car went into reverse by mistake. The touch screen shift is incredibly poor UI design.
Angela Chao drowned after fatal mistake in her Tesla, called for help

I'm sorry your friend died, but since you posted this three different places and never retracted it, I have to qualify this. Your friend died because she operated a motor vehicle with three times the legal blood alcohol limit, not because of the Tesla (and we don't even know what model year it was and frankly it doesn't matter now). There is also a very good chance that it also contributed to her inability to get out of the car, although other people (not in Teslas) have panicked and died under similar circumstances before. People make mistakes and she made a fatal one. Look no further than the fact that her family is NOT suing Tesla.

Angela Chao: Shipping billionaire intoxicated when she drowned in Tesla, police report shows

Per the NHTSA, 13,384 people died in the U.S. in 2021 as a result of drunk driving. The only reasons her death went any further than the local news were that the name Tesla was involved and she was a billionaire. Probably mostly because of the name Tesla, since every headline seemed to feel the need to include that.

 

[SurgeEV]

And this is a major source of our problems. People thinking that they are "special" because they are wealthy and politically connected. We became a corrupt oligarchy and yes, we know now she was an in-law of McConnell, and a billionaire, underscoring the merger of wealth and Washington politics. Would you be similarly empathic for someone who died because of the old Chevy bought with last savings misfired an airbag?

What a ridiculous thing to write. Ironically, the “Chevy” you refer to does not have touch screen shifting, so would very likely not contributed to her death

 

[SurgeEV]

I don't disagree but in stressful situations muscle-memory often kicks-in. I read she was making a 3-point k-turn on the narrow private road next to the pond and it was very dark. I can imagine she instinctively down-swiped to put it in drive while her attention was focused on her surroundings.

It would be interesting to know if she had auto-guess turned on.

WTF is “auto guess”?? Sounds like a ridiculous “feature”. I don’t need the software to guess what drive mode I want to be in.

 

[SurgeEV]

I'm sorry your friend died, but since you posted this three different places and never retracted it, I have to qualify this. Your friend died because she operated a motor vehicle with three times the legal blood alcohol limit, not because of the Tesla (and we don't even know what model year it was and frankly it doesn't matter now). There is also a very good chance that it also contributed to her inability to get out of the car, although other people (not in Teslas) have panicked and died under similar circumstances before. People make mistakes and she made a fatal one. Look no further than the fact that her family is NOT suing Tesla.

Angela Chao: Shipping billionaire intoxicated when she drowned in Tesla, police report shows

Per the NHTSA, 13,384 people died in the U.S. in 2021 as a result of drunk driving. The only reasons her death went any further than the local news were that the name Tesla was involved and she was a billionaire. Probably mostly because of the name Tesla, since every headline seemed to feel the need to include that.

Fair points. But you can’t deny that the atypical shift “mechanism” contributed. I’ve never missed a shift in my Mercedes. She - and others - complained about putting the car in D instead of R, or vice-versa, prior to this.

As an aside, I’m in a Model 3 Uber now: why is the ride quality such utter GARBAGE?? Honestly, if a Toyota Yaris rode like this, it would be embarrassing. I’m not trying to be negative, I’m just shocked it’s so bad. I’m a former automotive engineer so I understand suspension tech better than most. This is unacceptable.

 

[SurgeEV]

I agree. I have 2 Teslas. One with a shifter stalk and one I just bought with on-screen shifting. When alternating between them, I must admit it's not intuitive to move my hand up to put the car in drive and move it down to put it in reverse. Every other car I've driven was the opposite.

I'm sure I'll get used to it but right now, as a newcomer to it, I feel like Tesla's on-screen sliding car could be replaced with 4 fixed-position icons labled PRND, which is the industry standard. This would match what Tesla shows on their instrument cluster and on their charging tray,

Accidently going in the wrong direction could be fatal, as it was with Angela Chao.

I fully agree. It’s completely bizarre that this type of interface is actually legal to be sold. It doesn’t make any sense.

 

[SurgeEV]

The glass hammers and spring loaded glass breaker devices like Resqme won’t do jack on laminated windows, and most people won’t keep a spare charged Sawzall in the car:

AAA: Laminated Glass Doesn't Give Drivers a Break | AAA Oregon/Idaho

Unlike tempered glass, vehicle escape tools can’t break the stronger material BOISE – (July 16, 2019) – Due to a revision in the federal motor vehicle safety standards, an increasing number of late-model vehicles are now equipped with side windows made out of laminated glass, a stronger material...

info.oregon.aaa.com

The X, like a lot of recent cars, has all laminated windows and no tempered glass. I think that’s by recent recommendations because those are safer supposedly.

Now I don’t know if you had a Resqme in there and used it like 20 times, could you then kick it out? If not, her only hope was to wait until the car was almost full of water and then open the door.

In a civil suit, the prosecutor could make hay of the X’s on screen gear shifter being confusing I suppose or the mechanical door release being obscure. The former is bs and the latter I think is a legit concern.

Tesla could mitigate this by having an onboarding process for any new driver profile in the car where they have to demonstrate they know the manual door release before they can start driving it.

What about lowering the window?? Why did that not work? She was on the phone with a friend who was there for 2 minutes. I can guarantee she tried the window. Bad design? Cheap parts?

 

[SurgeEV]

Condolences for your friend. It's extremely difficult to escape from any submerged car because of the water pressure on the doors. Most cars today have electric windows, so Tesla is not unique in that regard either. Tesla doors have manual emergency releases that are not electric, but again, water pressure is likely to preclude using the release if the car is submerged. Tesla battery packs are pressurized to prevent water incursion, but obviously at a depth of 15 feet, that may not work indefinitely. It's unclear from your example if your friend's car caught fire or your were making a generalization. As to Teslas's liability, the circumstances surrounding how the car entered the pond will be the deciding factor.

We know from the WSJ articles that it took 2 minutes for the lights to be submerged. This was a Model X, where the top of the headlights are in line with the bottom of the windows. So why didn’t the windows open?? She had 2 minutes to lower them.

 

[alexgr]

Fair points. But you can’t deny that the atypical shift “mechanism” contributed.

Sure, anyone can deny that. You saying "you can't deny" does not qualify as an argumentative statement, sorry.

 

[alexgr]

What about lowering the window?? Why did that not work? She was on the phone with a friend who was there for 2 minutes. I can guarantee she tried the window. Bad design? Cheap parts?

You are trolling, right? 1) It will be very difficult to open windows under the pressure of water, I doubt any car will do it. 2) If she was drunk and stressed, it is not unlikely she acted irrationally.

 

[GNFO]

Fair points. But you can’t deny that the atypical shift “mechanism” contributed. I’ve never missed a shift in my Mercedes. She - and others - complained about putting the car in D instead of R, or vice-versa, prior to this.

As an aside, I’m in a Model 3 Uber now: why is the ride quality such utter GARBAGE?? Honestly, if a Toyota Yaris rode like this, it would be embarrassing. I’m not trying to be negative, I’m just shocked it’s so bad. I’m a former automotive engineer so I understand suspension tech better than most. This is unacceptable.

Well, I can deny it. People make mistakes, and some are more prone to it than others, especially if they're completely drunk. I point you to the vast well of YouTube with tons of examples of people, sober and otherwise, in the wrong gear crashing into things - and not driving Teslas. Stating that you never missed a shift in your Mercedes is pointless - I've never missed a shift in my Tesla either. Neither single example proves anything when you're talking about the virtually infinite variance of human ability. Even citing Google searches is pointless because we all know that putting "Tesla" in a headline provides extra clicks. I've caught my daughter forgetting to put our old Highlander in drive after backing out of the garage (and it has a center console shifter, and yes she has a license, not just a learner's permit). If someone puts their Toyota Camry in reverse instead of drive it's not going to make a headline. Just like ICE fires don't make headlines, even though they happen way more frequently than EV fires.

Since you say she was you're friend, maybe you can at least settle the question of what version and year of Model X she owned? The complaints about shifting the Model X all seem to immediately point to the screen shifter, but that didn't come about until mid-2021. Even the articles that speculate about the screen shifting being a problem bury the statement at the bottom that they don't actually know what version she was driving, which makes any speculation just silly.

 

[davenlei]

Well, I can deny it. People make mistakes, and some are more prone to it than others, especially if they're completely drunk. I point you to the vast well of YouTube with tons of examples of people, sober and otherwise, in the wrong gear crashing into things - and not driving Teslas. Stating that you never missed a shift in your Mercedes is pointless - I've never missed a shift in my Tesla either. Neither single example proves anything when you're talking about the virtually infinite variance of human ability. Even citing Google searches is pointless because we all know that putting "Tesla" in a headline provides extra clicks. I've caught my daughter forgetting to put our old Highlander in drive after backing out of the garage (and it has a center console shifter, and yes she has a license, not just a learner's permit). If someone puts their Toyota Camry in reverse instead of drive it's not going to make a headline. Just like ICE fires don't make headlines, even though they happen way more frequently than EV fires.

Since you say she was you're friend, maybe you can at least settle the question of what version and year of Model X she owned? The complaints about shifting the Model X all seem to immediately point to the screen shifter, but that didn't come about until mid-2021. Even the articles that speculate about the screen shifting being a problem bury the statement at the bottom that they don't actually know what version she was driving, which makes any speculation just silly.

Looks like her car was a 2020 Model X per articles who would provide more detail than 'unspecified' so unless the media and investigators have it wrong, her car had stalks for the drive selection and NOT touch screen drive selector.

"Chao, the sister of former U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and sister-in-law of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., died February 10 after accidentally putting her 2020 Tesla Model X SUV into reverse and backing into a pond, The Wall Street Journal reported. Authorities in Blanco County have refused to release additional information on the accident while an investigation is ongoing. "

Not looking for a fight, just stating the facts being published based on the question in the post I have quoted above. Regardless, a woman died which is unfortunate. The investigators will determine the cause and I am sure her BAC will be identified as a big factor. Driving drunk is not ok. I have multiple friends whose lives were impacted from the actions of drunk drivers. Friends who were the drunk driver and friends who were an innocent victim.

 

[GNFO]

Looks like her car was a 2020 Model X per articles who would provide more detail than 'unspecified' so unless the media and investigators have it wrong, her car had stalks for the drive selection and NOT touch screen drive selector.

"Chao, the sister of former U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao and sister-in-law of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., died February 10 after accidentally putting her 2020 Tesla Model X SUV into reverse and backing into a pond, The Wall Street Journal reported. Authorities in Blanco County have refused to release additional information on the accident while an investigation is ongoing. "

Not looking for a fight, just stating the facts being published based on the question in the post I have quoted above. Regardless, a woman died which is unfortunate. The investigators will determine the cause and I am sure her BAC will be identified as a big factor. Driving drunk is not ok. I have multiple friends whose lives were impacted from the actions of drunk drivers. Friends who were the drunk driver and friends who were an innocent victim.

Thanks for that. Guessing all the people using this unfortunate accident as a means to slam Tesla's UI choice are just going to go dark and not admit that they shouldn't have jumped on it. People with preconceived notions (or agendas) tend to not like the far more common possibility of simple human error.

 

[TomServo]

Sadly the media like politicians operate under a similar standard today - don't let a good crisis go to waste. Call it TDS "Tesla Derangement Syndrome".