So I made a reservation 12/13, (reservation 7,1xx) was told car would be delivered in 14' (yes we all know this and delays), placed my order 12/9/15 for P90 and confirmed 12/17. Now if you order a P90D today you will get it long before I get my P90, so what was the point of making a reservation? Seems it was the privilege of making Tesla a 5k interest free loan for almost 3 years. Total BS, will never make another reservation again. Very disappointed in Tesla, really need to get your act together, even talking about a Model 3 and taking more reservations is very unprofessional at this point. I have not purchased a new car in over 5 years while I waited for this car, many missed opportunities to enjoy driving other vehicles. You live and learn.
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Yes, if I order A, I may get it before you get your B, but if I order B,you will get your B before me.
Nothing is obvious enough...
That's just a bunch of crap...... and I meant I ordered a 90D a not P90. Tesla should communicate that to people that when placing your reservation. It all wreaks of amateur hour. They have the motors, same stuff for the S. Make the cars in the order of reservation of let people know that ordering something different will delay your car....its simple day one business operations and communications on a 115k car.
CarlK
Active Member
Who says P90D ordered today will definitely be delivered before P90 ordered earlier? People are reporting VIN assignment for their P90 order already. Tesla has the right to give certain (more profitable) products the priority. Just like it does not matter when you bought the ticket or checked in airlines will still sit first class passengers first. That's what happens when you live in this capitalist society.
BTW in case it's not clear to you what you have signed here is the Model X reservation agreement.
2. Nature of Agreement; Non-Binding Reservation Payment
.......This Agreementdoes not constitute an agreement for the sale of a Model X and does not lock in pricing, a production slot, or an estimated delivery date. You are under no obligation to purchase a Model X from us, and we are under no obligation to supply you with a Model X or any other vehicle......
BTW in case it's not clear to you what you have signed here is the Model X reservation agreement.
2. Nature of Agreement; Non-Binding Reservation Payment
.......This Agreementdoes not constitute an agreement for the sale of a Model X and does not lock in pricing, a production slot, or an estimated delivery date. You are under no obligation to purchase a Model X from us, and we are under no obligation to supply you with a Model X or any other vehicle......
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I agree 100%. I have been waiting over 2 years for my 90Dx I recently saw that someone that just placed an order for an X back in November and they are already getting their X because they configured the top of the line model. What is the point of reserving they vehicle then and getting a reservation number.
I sold my Audi so I could have a nice downpaymentioned 2 years ago and have been driving around in a beater since then. It's just not fair.
I sold my Audi so I could have a nice downpaymentioned 2 years ago and have been driving around in a beater since then. It's just not fair.
Carl.....you know the when you buy a first class ticket you get on the plane first, just like the people that plunked down 40k get their cars first but the rest of us should be getting our cars in the order the reservations were made otherwise what was the point of plunking down a deposit almost 3 years ago? being a fanboy does not mean you have to take crap... and the excuses that they down have the parts to make certain cars after almost 2 years of delays, well that's amateur hour once again.
I am assuming your use of P90 really means a 90D. Those who place $5K for a reservation, received just a reservation opportunity to order. All reservations including Signature gave everyone the opportunity to order at a future date, with Signature reservation holders being the first to order and receive their vehicle. I too expected my Model X in late 2014.
When Tesla opened the Design center, based on reservations dates, Tesla clearly indicated they would be building P90D's first and then 90D and stated that P90Ds would be delivered first part of 2016 and 90D would follow in the latter part of 2016 with the 70D being last and a rear wheel drive (single motor) to potentially follow at the end of the year. This was noted in the Design Center, so I made a decision to order a P90D, with no Ludicrous vs. the 90D which I previously intended to order. This would allow me to avoid annual taxes on my existing car and ensure that my Tax Credit would occur in 2016 tax year. Tesla also indicated on 2015 investment call they would have to batch by type, color and geography to gain economies of scale. It makes sense, because following an strict reservation date order was very costly --for build and transportation. Tesla can now focus on building a single model -- under carriage, and focus on single paint color -- body in white, as well as similar optioned vehicles -- premium, updated Hi-Fi.
I realize I am arguing logic against the emotion of not getting your X in reservation sequence order. Sequence order is what was expected in 2013 based on everyone's experience with the Model S. A lot has changed in the 2.5 years. Hopefully, the 90D will be out sooner than later. In the last week, there have been a number of VINs assigned in California (Batching location) for both P90D and 90D's. If Tesla builds and delivers these in "short order", that would be great news for all -- my P90D and your 90D. Best of luck to all.
When Tesla opened the Design center, based on reservations dates, Tesla clearly indicated they would be building P90D's first and then 90D and stated that P90Ds would be delivered first part of 2016 and 90D would follow in the latter part of 2016 with the 70D being last and a rear wheel drive (single motor) to potentially follow at the end of the year. This was noted in the Design Center, so I made a decision to order a P90D, with no Ludicrous vs. the 90D which I previously intended to order. This would allow me to avoid annual taxes on my existing car and ensure that my Tax Credit would occur in 2016 tax year. Tesla also indicated on 2015 investment call they would have to batch by type, color and geography to gain economies of scale. It makes sense, because following an strict reservation date order was very costly --for build and transportation. Tesla can now focus on building a single model -- under carriage, and focus on single paint color -- body in white, as well as similar optioned vehicles -- premium, updated Hi-Fi.
I realize I am arguing logic against the emotion of not getting your X in reservation sequence order. Sequence order is what was expected in 2013 based on everyone's experience with the Model S. A lot has changed in the 2.5 years. Hopefully, the 90D will be out sooner than later. In the last week, there have been a number of VINs assigned in California (Batching location) for both P90D and 90D's. If Tesla builds and delivers these in "short order", that would be great news for all -- my P90D and your 90D. Best of luck to all.
SMSMD
Active Member
Europe and China have been invited to the design studio, no luck for Production reservation holders in Canada so far except the Signature orders who are still in the dark after ordering, no VIN yet assigned to them. Probably a blessing in disguise. It`s Tesla`s way of doing things I suppose. :cursing:
There has historically been priority put towards delivering Performance models from the release of the Model S. During the unveiling, Tesla didn't state that they were or were not going to do the same thing with the Model X - it seems that they have chosen to do so again.
In both cases (Model S and Model X), the "First-class ticket" was not a reservation, it was buying the Performance model of the car.
If you're upset that the P90Ds are getting delivered before your 90D, and you must have your Model X sooner, why not upgrade your to the P90D and enjoy the extra acceleration?
I understand the feeling, I really do - waiting for my MS has been excruciating, and my wait will be much shorter than yours (even if you did upgrade, in all likelihood). But I'm not sure where the disconnect was - history repeated itself, eventually Tesla did say that P90Ds would get priority just like the MS, and your 90D will probably be one of the first built, as is fair. I'm having trouble seeing the problem or lack of fairness.
In both cases (Model S and Model X), the "First-class ticket" was not a reservation, it was buying the Performance model of the car.
If you're upset that the P90Ds are getting delivered before your 90D, and you must have your Model X sooner, why not upgrade your to the P90D and enjoy the extra acceleration?
I understand the feeling, I really do - waiting for my MS has been excruciating, and my wait will be much shorter than yours (even if you did upgrade, in all likelihood). But I'm not sure where the disconnect was - history repeated itself, eventually Tesla did say that P90Ds would get priority just like the MS, and your 90D will probably be one of the first built, as is fair. I'm having trouble seeing the problem or lack of fairness.
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To the OP- there was no point in making a reservation. Tesla has not honored those reservations. Everyone who made a reservation pretty much got screwed as tesla racked up couple hundred million in free money for years. It is what it is and I doubt you will get any sympathy on this forum. And before you think it's the end of tesla, look how many are lining up to put a deposit on the model 3. there is one born every minute.
The only thing the reservations did was establish a queue for design studio access. That is it and that is how it has worked for the Roadster and for the S. Higher optioned configurations get configured first. Also how it has been done in the past and how it will be done for the Model 3 -- Elon has already stated this. After the Sigs, production reservations opened up continuously faster as they went down the line as the response of people coming back and actually placing orders was quite low. Apparently there are a lot of people who feel they need to see the car, or at least a reasonable spec sheet and product literature before ordering a $100K car unseen. 
<--Sarcasm being laid on thick.
As for production and delivery, it seems they are assigning VINs and producing in that order. VIN assignment seems a bit odd at times, but I think there's a lot of micro-management going on in terms of available options, paint color, delivery region, etc.. Even though they seem to be producing cars in mostly sequential VIN order, delivery is all over the place due to the varying amounts of post-production QC the cars need before releasing to customers.
I really feel for the Signature reservation holders who plunked down all that money nearly 3 years ago and are receiving cars well after production reservation holders who put down $5K less than 6 months ago. OTOH, I'm not sure I understand the logic of some of the Signature people who put down $35K and waited years to configure a 70D.
<--Sarcasm being laid on thick.As for production and delivery, it seems they are assigning VINs and producing in that order. VIN assignment seems a bit odd at times, but I think there's a lot of micro-management going on in terms of available options, paint color, delivery region, etc.. Even though they seem to be producing cars in mostly sequential VIN order, delivery is all over the place due to the varying amounts of post-production QC the cars need before releasing to customers.
I really feel for the Signature reservation holders who plunked down all that money nearly 3 years ago and are receiving cars well after production reservation holders who put down $5K less than 6 months ago. OTOH, I'm not sure I understand the logic of some of the Signature people who put down $35K and waited years to configure a 70D.
i thought if you got a signature that you got a fully loaded, the whole enchilada? Can you get a 70d as a signature?
i was considering putting deposits down on the Model 3 for my kids, but then I started thinking, and . . .
I get why they did it in the past but those same reasons really don't exist today.....building a 90D and P90D are not all that different. Its not like the Model S when they were figuring production, batteries and engines. This is simply a way to get people to spend more for a car and gives people no reason to make a reservation in the future for unless they are going to get the performance model. Because by the time you get the other version production will be ramped-up and waits times will be reduced significantly, just like there is almost the same wait if you ordered a P90D today. Its bad business to do it this way, all it does is piss people off......smarten up Tesla, youre not a startup anymore more.
Q.... it isn't a technical debate, but a financial one. Tesla realizes cash flows are important, not to mention revenue (GAAP). So to that end, two things are occurring... first Order confirmation which move deposits on the balance sheet to revenue -- your order agreement states: by placing the order, your deposit is considered EARNED. This allows TESLA to book the deposit as revenue (there is no movement of cash, just a balance sheet statement). Secondly, things like Ludicrous and Autopilot are available in all cars and turned on by software. So those who order Autopilot at the time of order, they flip a software "bit" allowing auto pilot to work.... no expense since the hardware is already installed. Conjecture is the Ludicrous Mode is built into the current 90 Kw/hr battery ... so another "bit" flip on a P90D, gets Tesla $20,000 more in revenue. Following the same logic, whatever the margins on upgrades follow -- Premium Interior and Ultra HiFi. Whatever Tesla's margin is on these feature again represent more Revenue and Profit for the vehicle sold. The P90D has the larger motor and may also represent a larger revenue stream and profit as well assuming there is only a marginal production cost.
So can Tesla make a 90D -- yes. Can they make a P90D fully loaded -- yes. To pay for tooling, engineering, overhead, etc., Tesla has elected to build the most profitable vehicles first. So think of it this way.... the P90Ds are funding the potential to build the 90Ds. The same logic holds for 70Ds...why build the least featured vehicle now. Tesla is dedicated to become cash positive and earnings positive in 2016. Tesla can only borrow money for production for so long..... at some point, building out the Super Chargers, Paying for the new Paint Center, paying for the new assy line etc has to be paid for... either by borrowing more money or through sales. Tesla MUST increase returns from sales to generate positive income.
So can Tesla make a 90D -- yes. Can they make a P90D fully loaded -- yes. To pay for tooling, engineering, overhead, etc., Tesla has elected to build the most profitable vehicles first. So think of it this way.... the P90Ds are funding the potential to build the 90Ds. The same logic holds for 70Ds...why build the least featured vehicle now. Tesla is dedicated to become cash positive and earnings positive in 2016. Tesla can only borrow money for production for so long..... at some point, building out the Super Chargers, Paying for the new Paint Center, paying for the new assy line etc has to be paid for... either by borrowing more money or through sales. Tesla MUST increase returns from sales to generate positive income.
Darryl
ModelXTracker.com Co-Adm
As to the first part of your question. The Ludicrous mode is not just a software update. You can read the specifics on the S forum and elsewhere on this forum but the wiring harness and battery post they use if you have the ludicrous option is heavier duty to take care of the additional load. So even if you have a P90D without ludicrous the wiring harness and other pieces have to be upgraded in addition to "setting the bit" That is one of the reasons they charge a lot more if you upgrade after taking delivery. I am not sure when it comes to autopilot if it is just a software update or a combination of software/hardware I know they put the sensors in place but I am not sure about the main camera in the front. But I am sure about Ludicrous. I do not think the reservation deposit moves to revenue until you take delivery. The reason I say this is people can still get their deposit back just so the car hasn't entered into production, so maybe or maybe not. I am not sure whether they have access to the reservation deposits, if they do they are going to be generating a lot of deposit money when the Model 3 reservations start at the end of the month. . A lot more than they had with the Model X. If nothing else they may be able to borrow against it using it as collateral. So back to your question there may be a couple of things that are just "setting the bit" but there are a lot that are not. The 70D gets further away when it comes to setting the bit as you can't even upgrade to Ludicrous mode with a 70D as it would require upgraded motors, in addition to the wiring harness and batteries. It wouldn't be worth it. . It would be interesting to break apart each of the packaged groups like premium and see what requires just software and what requires software and hardware.
