What makes a car "fun to drive"?

[AZAV8R]

Sunday I was merging from the freeway onto a road with a merging lane, no stop or yield sign. Should have been an easy merge, but the ICE vehicle in the right lane floored it to get in front of me. I was forced to teach him a lesson about EV acceleration. The wife was laughing.

That’s when I enjoy driving my MY.

I've sent more than one "Hemi" driver away with his tail between his legs. And silently, while I did it!

 

[fholbert]

I've sent more than one "Hemi" driver away with his tail between his legs. And silently, while I did it!

Yea, this guy turned right first chance he had. Pretty sure he was embarrassed to challenge me at the next red light.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Why would I ever want to own a Camry? And if a mid range pseudo luxury SUV is your metric for fun, I suggest *you* try driving more cars.

Rwd can be great, but it is not by itself enough to make a car fun. There are plenty of fwd cars that are more fun than many rwd cars. Slow with poor suspension and in inability to take advantage of the rwd perks does not make a compelling package

I doubt it. But I can assure you, you’re Camry is not one of them

 

[fredjan]

Okay, what are your thoughts then? Why don’t you grace us with your brilliant insights?

Dude, if I said my honest thoughts about you, I'd probably get banned from this forum

Idk how tight the mods are here, but you sound like the kind of guy that people hate interacting with

 

[scalbert03]

I get the notion that there are many here that have never been on a road course and others that have. The definition of responsiveness changes depending on the classification. No right or wrong, just perspective.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Dude, if I said my honest thoughts about you, I'd probably get banned from this forum

Idk how tight the mods are here, but you sound like the kind of guy that people hate interacting with

The mods mod. Just ignore and move on is the best course of action.

 

[tm1v2]

Doug is full of crap. The model 3 is a blast to drive - fast, cuts into corners, slides the tail, brilliant on a mountain road - it just has that feel. It's not identical to your favorite legacy gas car, it's not light, no clutch, no shift points, it has it's own personality. The model Y is competent, but not fun like that. Doug's just blasting out the brainless click bait narrative that electric cars and tesla are boring .... yada yada.... we know better.

@pipestem What you wrote is exactly how I feel about these topics. Word for word. Well said.

Acceleration and responsiveness to throttle inputs is one factor of “fun”.

Handling and responsiveness to steering is another factor of “fun” which is typically hand in hand with being light and tossable.

And there’s the intangible “feel” of the car which contributes to how fun it is as well. The smoothness of an EV definitely takes away some of that.

I would say the Model 3 is fun to accelerate with but the suspension and handling makes it not very fun to drive at the limit. The weight of the battery both helps and hinders it. When not pushed to the limit the low CoG makes it feel like it handles well but when pushed hard it likes to understeer and it also very easily power oversteers (especially low traction conditions like rain) thanks to EV torque.

Suspension and body motions just don’t feel as well controlled to me as German cars I’ve had in the past which felt planted and glued to the road. I can’t really put it into words but I just don’t feel as connected and confidently in control of the car as I did with others I’ve had before.

Although my 3LR+AB is the quickest accelerating car I’ve had, it’s not the most fun. It’s an appliance that just happens to be fast.

This is basically how I’d describe my prior model 3 performance. 0-30 was fun, but as an overall package kinda fell apart. Especially when pushing it through corners as you note.

My (admittedly heavily modded) e46 m3? Heaven. Nothing quite like snaking through corners while banging through the gears at 8k rpm. The chassis tuning is just heavenly and nothing quite like the induction noise.

Plaid… very different type of fun. The acceleration is simply brutal. It’s like owning a roller coaster. Does it handle well? No not really. It is a 4800 lb car at the end of the day. Though the dampers are at least better than the model 3, so I do find it to feel more predictable.

@E90alex @terranx Both of you should really take the plunge and put some good coilovers on your Model 3's (from Redwood or MPP). I completely agree with what you two wrote, but it's all from the terrible bargain basement stock dampers. I don't usually write "trust me" on Internet forums, but...trust me.

This car handles amazing once the suspension is fixed, as good or better than any proper sedan. The great weight distribution and low CG can really be felt once the suspension is fixed. Even a 50/50 BMW 3-series doesn't have its weight so well placed as the Model 3.

I get the notion that there are many here that have never been on a road course and others that have. The definition of responsiveness changes depending on the classification. No right or wrong, just perspective.

@scalbert03 Interesting thought there, and I think I agree with it if I'm understanding correctly. Responsiveness in back road driving does not pose the same firmness or aero requirements as responsiveness on a racetrack. And a really great setup for one is different than what's great for the other.

 

[fredjan]

@pipestem What you wrote is exactly how I feel about these topics. Word for word. Well said.




@E90alex @terranx Both of you should really take the plunge and put some good coilovers on your Model 3's (from Redwood or MPP). I completely agree with what you two wrote, but it's all from the terrible bargain basement stock dampers. I don't usually write "trust me" on Internet forums, but...trust me.

This car handles amazing once the suspension is fixed, as good or better than any proper sedan. The great weight distribution and low CG can really be felt once the suspension is fixed. Even a 50/50 BMW 3-series doesn't have its weight so well placed as the Model 3.


@scalbert03 Interesting thought there, and I think I agree with it if I'm understanding correctly. Responsiveness in back road driving does not pose the same firmness or aero requirements as responsiveness on a racetrack. And a really great setup for one is different than what's great for the other.

I'm very excited to put some MPP sport coilovers on my model 3 RWD once I finally need to replace the stock suspension around 80-100k miles

Edit: still got like 60k miles to go

 

[davewill]

Why would I ever want to own a Camry? And if a mid range pseudo luxury SUV is your metric for fun, I suggest *you* try driving more cars.

Rwd can be great, but it is not by itself enough to make a car fun. There are plenty of fwd cars that are more fun than many rwd cars. Slow with poor suspension and in inability to take advantage of the rwd perks does not make a compelling package

I have to say my Rav4 EV was VERY fun to drive. No matter that it didn't take corners particularly well and was FWD. When you put it in sport mode, it was almost too powerful for an SUV. If I had been certain of being able to keep it running without facing huge repair bills, I'd have kept it forever.

That said I greatly enjoy my M3SR and much prefer driving it over my wife's MYLR, despite the fact that it accelerates much better. The M3 has all the acceleration I need for city driving.

 

[terranx]

Dude, if I said my honest thoughts about you, I'd probably get banned from this forum

Idk how tight the mods are here, but you sound like the kind of guy that people hate interacting with

Go for it, I have a thick skin. Happy to have made such a strong impression on someone I have no recollection of interacting with.

 

[terranx]

I doubt it. But I can assure you, you’re Camry is not one of them

I never claimed a Camry is a fun car. But I am claiming a standard model 3 is about as close to a Camry as you can get as far as rwd cars go.

 

[scalbert03]

@scalbert03 Interesting thought there, and I think I agree with it if I'm understanding correctly. Responsiveness in back road driving does not pose the same firmness or aero requirements as responsiveness on a racetrack. And a really great setup for one is different than what's great for the other.

My post was really about the use of 'Metric' since it is should be measurable. The case use frames the perspective on what is fun. If someone often drives at the speed limit and doesn't use public roads as their playground, the Model 3 is probably 'fun' and there is nothing wrong with that. Me personally, I would say they have never really had fun in a vehicle. But yes, the setup for one could make the other insufferable. A comfortable road set up will not be responsive on the track. A very responsive track set up would be terrible on the road. There is a compromise point, and Tesla sided with cost in the dampers that delay the settling of the suspension. cheaper.

For back road drives with little to no other traffic, I try to limit the 'pucker' moments to the track though, but would be lying if it hasn't happened on the road. This happens way to soon with the stock suspension which is why I am upgrading to coil-overs.

I took my M3P to AMP last week for a Track Night in America event and got a clear understanding of the deficiencies in the stock suspension. The M3P is a good car on the road with the immediacy of the throttle response. This ability often overshadows the suspension inadequacies. On the road, the M3P is more fun than my Corvette or prior E90 M3 (6MT). But on the track, it lumbered and always took more time to settle before I could get back on the throttle than the other vehicles. The other vehicles were way more fun on the track. All were on stock suspension.

 

[rpiotro]

I think that "fun-to-drive" is a very subjective category. Responsiveness is an important factor, but HOW the car responses to the input is another question. Many "dependent" reviewers praised really bad traction and stability controls of Ford Mach-E as evidence of it's superiority in the fun-to-drive category. I tend to think now that for the reviewers whose income depends on the reviews the "funness-to-drive" depends on how much direct and indirect contributions they receive from the manufacturers.

Fun to drive Mach E? I drove a pre-release version in February of 2021. Spent the afternoon with it. Nice car but it rides like a truck. Because it is a truck. And then there is that crappy and noisy MacPherson strut front suspension. Like you would get on a Hyundai Elantra. If you were coming from a Ford Explorer you would feel right at home.

 

[804son]

I never claimed a Camry is a fun car. But I am claiming a standard model 3 is about as close to a Camry as you can get as far as rwd cars go.

Role that Camry up next to my M3 LRAWD w/ AB. It'll be alot of "FUN" blowing that thing off the line.

 

[MikeRTX]

Rwd only does 0-60 in 5.8 which is on par with a Camry, and I don’t think many here would object to a Camry being considered an appliance. Long range does 4.2 which is somewhat respectable, but still middle of the road as far as EVs go. And both cars top out at 125 mph which is slow compared to most cars out there.

This is kind of like the horsepower argument. Turns out TORQUE is the real determiner of "quickness".

There is no way a Camry of any kind is going to snap your head back when you stomp it like even the base Model 3 does. Everyone who has driven or ridden in my RWD 3 has come away impressed if not wide-eyed. (Well, except for my wife's nephew who had a Lambo Gallardo.)

 

[E90alex]

And then there is that crappy and noisy MacPherson strut front suspension. Like you would get on a Hyundai Elantra.

Or a BMW M3. Or Porsche 911. I guess those automatically suck at handling too.

 

[MikeRTX]

A Metric is a measure that is quantifiable. What is quantifiable?

Is it response on turn-in? Or time to settle the suspension after a transition on a road course? Or is your measurement just throttle pedal response? If just the later, I agree., this vehicle is great on acceleration response. If either of the former, I very much disagree.

Yes. I meant throttle response. But I also think my M3 handles very well. I'm not in love with the suspension or the brakes, but they're tolerable.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Fun to drive Mach E? I drove a pre-release version in February of 2021. Spent the afternoon with it. Nice car but it rides like a truck. Because it is a truck. And then there is that crappy and noisy MacPherson strut front suspension. Like you would get on a Hyundai Elantra. If you were coming from a Ford Explorer you would feel right at home.

"Pre-release"

I wonder what type of excuses we would get if someone drove a "pre-released" Model 3 and trashed the suspension.

The Ford Explorer has luxury suspension and is a unibody like the Cybertruck, you know, the one everyone is praising for the suspension.

 

[MikeRTX]

I get the notion that there are many here that have never been on a road course and others that have. The definition of responsiveness changes depending on the classification. No right or wrong, just perspective.

No offense, but very few people drive road courses, or even really want to. 99.something % of most people's driving is on public roads, so driving performance generally comes down to things like taking off from stoplights, accelerating onto freeways and highways, exiting freeways and highways, passing cars on two-lane highways, etc.

Folks who are into racing often feel superior to regular drivers (as do car magazine writers) because they push their cars to their limits on artificial, closed circuits like race tracks that bear little resemblance to real-world driving. I can only hope these people don't push to the limits on public roads where innocent people are driving. Just sayin'.

 

[Bouba]

Perhaps we just need a different vocabulary.....let the hot rod guys keep the word ‘fun’ for themselves....we can say a Tesla feels ‘electric’