What are the issues with AP2?

[tstafford]

Folks,

I'm sure I could comb thru a million posts, but can someone who has experience with both AP1 and AP2 tell me why the consensus is that AP2 isn't there yet?

I'm coming up on the end of my lease on the P85D. I love the car, love AP1 - I use it heavily on the highway and around town. I enjoy it. I regularly drive from Nashville to Atlanta and AP1 makes that a sweet, relaxing experience.

We'll definitely get another Tesla at lease end - probably lease an X. We lease because we know we'll want the next cool thing and the lease puts us on a schedule for upgrades.

Will AP2 bug me enough that I should consider buying the P85D instead of getting a new Tesla?

Thanks.
Tim

 

[boonedocks]

@tstafford....I would have said keep your P85D a month ago. However with latest updates, 40.1 in my case, AP2 has significantly progressed. I have been very vocal about how bad it HAD been compared to my 85D AP1 car so I feel it only fair to say AP2 is showing great signs from this point forward. I would consider new vs keeping your P85D ESPECIALLY if you are at all interested in FSD at some point down the road.

 

[BrettS]

Unfortunately I’m not sure there is really a cut and dried answer to this question. As a bit of background, the problem comes from the falling out that Tesla had with Mobileye, who provided the AP1 technology. Since Tesla cut their ties with Mobileye they essentially had to start from square 1 with AP2 and reinvent the solution.

In any case, at this point people generally agree that they are at a very similar place right now. Some people like AP1 better and some like AP2 better, but I think everyone agrees that they are close. There is still a lot of work being done to improve AP2, so it should only get better from here, eventually reaching FSD (theoretically) whereas there may be some minor improvements yet to come for AP1, but I don’t expect to see any significant changes.

Since it does seem to be such a personal thing you may be better off talking to Tesla and seeing if you can do an overnight or weekend test drive with an AP2 car to see how it works first hand.

 

[ucmndd]

The biggest issue from my perspective is the value proposition. $5000 for the "EAP" option that at this moment is maybe on-par performance-wise and still lacking in terms of available features vs. AP1, which sold for $2500-3500.

As far as auto-steer and TACC goes, I agree with the earlier post saying that recent software versions have improved significantly, and the performance of these features is more or less on par with the AP1 cars I've driven. Maybe it will continue to improve from here... maybe not, and who knows on what timeline that will be. I find the local road functionality of AP2 to still be erratic and dangerous, but it's pretty solid on the highway these days.

Features still missing vs. AP1:

Identification of different types of vehicles (motorcycles, trucks, etc. on the instrument panel display)
Identification of ANY vehicles in adjacent lanes (AP2 only displays the car(s) in front of you in your own lane)
Reading of speed limit signs
rain sensing wipers (seems like they've quietly given up on this one and have no plans to ever make it a reality)

 

[davinci2017]

Its fine, until things go wrong

I wouldn't rely on it yet for anything outside long straight freeways either jam packed with traffic or with minimal traffic. If there is free flowing normal traffic, I dont know when the car will surprise me.

Although to be fair, it has improved quite a bit with the recent updates, but I still haven't gotten the complete confidence I would like

No rain sensing wipers, no vehicle identification, no speed limit identification, still tends to not be sure about one side lane markers going away, still too eager to climb back to speed limit even if vehicles up front are slow.

 

[Black/Black MS]

I drive an AP1 SP90D. I recently did a 24-hour test drive of an AP2 X100D with EAP. I couldn't tell the difference between the two.

I frankly think the pockets of extreme negativity towards AP2 comes from the fact that people were lied to by Musk and they are pissed, and I don't blame them. If I plunked down $5k for EAP on a new Telsa and got the pile of garbage that was the original AP2, I'd never do business with Tesla again.

 

[BBB4000]

I drive an AP1 SP90D. I recently did a 24-hour test drive of an AP2 X100D with EAP. I couldn't tell the difference between the two.

24 hour test drive sounds awesome. How did you pull that off?

 

[tstafford]

Thanks.

Question: If it can't read speed limits, how does it know what the limit is for auto-steer on secondary roads? My car lets me set auto-steer and TACC to 5 mph over limit on non-divided highways.

 

[DrivingRockies]

Thanks.

Question: If it can't read speed limits, how does it know what the limit is for auto-steer on secondary roads? My car lets me set auto-steer and TACC to 5 mph over limit on non-divided highways.

GPS and data points. Sometimes it doesn't and defaults to 45mph.

 

[Black/Black MS]

24 hour test drive sounds awesome. How did you pull that off?

Anyone can do it. Just call up your local showroom and schedule an appointment. I had to book a few weeks in advance to get it on a weekend.

 

[lunitiks]

@tstafford please read today's bloomberg article. I'm not saying it's the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but I was blown away about how they captured pretty much all the aspects of the noise that's been happening in this space for a very long time

 

[BBB4000]

Anyone can do it. Just call up your local showroom and schedule an appointment. I had to book a few weeks in advance to get it on a weekend.

Anyone can take the car for 24 hours? That's incredible. I had no idea. I am actually surprised they don't advertise this. I wish I knew!

 

[tstafford]

Thanks everyone. Lunitiks - I read the article you posted. Helpful for sure.

Sounds like a new X is probably going to be the right call for us. And for sure a 24 test drive is in order.

 

[BrettS]

Anyone can take the car for 24 hours? That's incredible. I had no idea. I am actually surprised they don't advertise this. I wish I knew!

I think they state that it’s intented for ‘serious’ buyers only, so they don’t just want anyone walking in off the street and taking a car overnight, but obviously it’s hard to define exactly what a ‘serious’ buyer is.

 

[Tam]

...Will AP2 bug me enough...

It depends on how good you are with adapting to an imperfect experimental product.

I myself am very happy with AP2 because I can instantly and effortlessly correct the system at an instant that it goes wrong.

I document my bad and good AP2 behaviors on youtube.

 

[BLKTSLA]

I own 2 cars with AP2 and AP1 and did a 2 part comparison of them both (part 2 coming soon)

I drive the cars interchangeably every day so I have a very good sense of the strengths and weaknesses each has. That said to make your decision easier you can look at it like this:

A) Keep AP1 and you will have a very consistent AP experience to what you see now, with increasing levels of refinement over time making it that more confident but limited to what the AP1 hardware will allow, which is pretty much everything that it does now.

B) Get AP2 and you will get all of what AP1 has (eventually) and then exceed with enhanced capabilities that only AP2 hardware can do moving closer to FSD (eventually).

 

[Electroman]

I drive an AP1 SP90D. I recently did a 24-hour test drive of an AP2 X100D with EAP. I couldn't tell the difference between the two.

Same here. My 24 hour extended test drive showed no noticeable difference that annoyed me. That was 2 months ago and from all reports recent updates have refined AP2 bringing it closer to AP1.

As for FSD with the current hardware in AP2.5? pipe-dream. Don't count on it.

 

[idleuser]

Top 4 most common issue with AP2

1) Ping pong between lines
2) AP2 loves to hug either the right or left lane makers making it too close for comfort.
3) Suddenly braking down to 45mph out of no where when crossing an underpass.
4) Getting confused when there are tar lines on the road and suddenly jumping lanes

 

[PrGrPa]

Top 4 most common issue with AP2
...
4) Getting confused when there are tar lines on the road and suddenly jumping lanes

Is this jumping without indicating - the vehicle following the wrong lane ‘markings’?

 

[kiwi]

I drive an AP1 SP90D. I recently did a 24-hour test drive of an AP2 X100D with EAP. I couldn't tell the difference between the two.​

Definitely not the case here. Recently took an AP1 owner for a drive in my AP2 car. He was surprised/shocked at how often and how violently the car swerved or braked on clearly marked roads. I can use EAP on wide divided motorways - but if there are trucks, cones, repairs/cracks in the tarmac, old paint, cars stopped on the side of the road etc, then I will absolutely see regular hard swerves to the side and sudden braking.

@idleuser - I would add to your list that when AP2 gets confused, it does so with sudden hard swerves. Very scary for passengers and drivers. AP2 also seems to hate cones on the side of the road.