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We Hear: Slew of German EVs Will Battle Tesla Model S

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Something is overpriced if it cannot be sold at asked price.

Wrong. Something is overpriced when it is not worth what it costs. Plain and simple.
Anyway, let's get back on topic as I am sure no one else here cares about us two bickering about the defition of "overpriced". You believe one way, I believe the other. You can't convince me, I can't convince you. Period.

Let us rather agree on something. We both love EVs and hope they will become the main method of personal transport in future. We both want Teslas to become a common sight all over the world. And we both believe that for quite some time to come, Tesla will be the EV manufacturer of choice - whether their store personnel use iPads or stone age plates to take down information.
 
You can't convince me...

That one refuses to accept reality does not alter reality.

As a bit of friendly advice, I suggest you educate yourself on consumer products, and especially user experience. You may bench race specs and stats of similar products all day long, but the paper comparisons are all but irrelevant for the bell curve of consumers. What's really matters are the subjectives/intangibles--how does the product look to the user? How does the product function for the user? And most importantly, how does the product make the user feel?

I actually find your perspective interesting on this forum because, as previously noted, there are many parallels between tesla and apple in this context. Just as you bench race an apple product against whatever else and convince yourself the apple product always loses, you can compare a tesla to similarly (and lower) priced vehicles only to find that the other car wins the battle on paper only to lose the war in overall experience.
 
Wrong. Something is overpriced when it is not worth what it costs. Plain and simple.
Anyway, let's get back on topic as I am sure no one else here cares about us two bickering about the defition of "overpriced". You believe one way, I believe the other. You can't convince me, I can't convince you. Period.

Let us rather agree on something. We both love EVs and hope they will become the main method of personal transport in future. We both want Teslas to become a common sight all over the world. And we both believe that for quite some time to come, Tesla will be the EV manufacturer of choice - whether their store personnel use iPads or stone age plates to take down information.

By your opinion. Obviously other people disagree. Not because they are stupid, but because they value different things than you. For instance, you said they should use normal computers instead, but they are generally more expensive than an iPad, so I fail to see how that would demonstrate that they are conserving money.
 
I am one of those people who have made the "Model S is the iPhone" of cars argument on TMC, simply because I believe the disruptive nature of both products is very similar, a massively disruptive entry into an established industry. Model S is to cars (on so many levels), what iPhone was to phones in late last decade. Note: I'm not saying iPhone is that today, today's disruption may come from someone else, but iPhone was that in 2007-2009...

But let's not kid ourselves: A lot, a lot of people buy products because they are trendy and popular - and for that reason alone - and any rational economist will concur and go trade some Apple shares. Apple got to a certain point on merit, but beyond that being the hip and happening thing has allowed them to grow and remain popular (especially when it has allowed them to command an ecosystem, the chicken and egg situation) even when they have relatively stagnated and other's have created even more critically acclaimed products. Now it is Apple's turn to be a very popular established player. The it thing. And no doubt, they are.

I'm not sure this is true for Tesla yet, to any significant degree. Maybe in California in certain circles it could be that people buy a Tesla because it is the it thing, but it is still a bit too niche and too expensive to be a global trend. I think at best Tesla is a global curiosity at the moment.

Now, given some time and especially lack of Vorsprung from the competition, maybe Tesla could be the next Apple. But not quite yet. All this said, I find the sidetrack on iPads and Apple to be highly subjective and a disruption to the meat of the discussion. I think AustinPowers raises some nice points, but the iPad thing was an unnecessary detour and probably more of a nuisance in the mind than the real beef of his arguments. I would chalk it up to personal bad experiences with Apple that are, in actual fact, quite unrelated to the Tesla conversation. Just a subjective annoyance that probably would have been better left unsaid.

Anyway, some interesting points raised on all sides on the differences (or lack thereof) of Tesla purchase - and interesting debate on the diesel. Certainly one's perspective is grealy dependant on their region. Buying a car in Europe is different than it is in the U.S., to an extent that includes buying a Tesla (although differences there are relatively less), so opinions are bound to be different too.

Maybe the real takeaway here is, check that box on the left and if you find yourself on the opposite side of the pond (let alone the globe), add an extra layer of effort to mend differences and understand differences - after all, as they say of the past, it is a different country and people do things differently there... the same definitely applies to actual different countries. :) Not to mention the language barrier giving different meanings to words.

Buying an Audi in the U.S. is not the same as buying one in Germany. Hence comparisons to Tesla purchase won't apply either.
 
But let's not kid ourselves: A lot, a lot of people buy products because they are trendy and popular - and for that reason alone - and any rational economist will concur and go trade some Apple shares. Apple got to a certain point on merit, but beyond that being the hip and happening thing has allowed them to grow and remain popular (especially when it has allowed them to command an ecosystem, the chicken and egg situation) even when they have relatively stagnated and other's have created even more critically acclaimed products.

++1

And THAT is exactly what I mean. They know that people perceive them as the best thing available (even though they aren't), they foster that assumption by all means possible. They are very successful at that, I have to acknowledge that fact, but again, for what their products offer they are overpriced, especially when compared to their competition.

In a way, Audi is a bit like Apple. They had some great tech in the past, great design and great quality.
They still have great quality, but their cars are not worth what Audi is asking for them, hence overpriced. Why do people still buy Audis like mad? Image, and effective advertising. Now, where have I seen that phenomenon elsewhere, for example in consumer electronics...? Hmmm ;-)

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By your opinion. Obviously other people disagree.

Of course, which is everybody's right - just as it is mine.

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Now, given some time and especially lack of Vorsprung from the competition, maybe Tesla could be the next Apple. But not quite yet. All this said, I find the sidetrack on iPads and Apple to be highly subjective and a disruption to the meat of the discussion. I think AustinPowers raises some nice points, but the iPad thing was an unnecessary detour and probably more of a nuisance in the mind than the real beef of his arguments. I would chalk it up to personal bad experiences with Apple that are, in actual fact, quite unrelated to the Tesla conversation. Just a subjective annoyance that probably would have been better left unsaid.

You are quite right. Which is exactly why I tried to end this detour with my previous post. And I for one will not say anything more about that subject. Let's get back to this thread when there is actual news of new German Tesla competitors. And to be realistic, I think this means we will dig up this thread again in a few years at the earliest... ;-)