Warped brake rotors with aftermarket rims installed

[Fxyz]

I checked with installer and they told me they manually torqued at 95 ft lb. I do not think it need to be torqued exactly at MS wheel spec.

Like I said before, does anybody have any proof that lower wheel torque causes rotor warpage?

I normally replace my non-electric car brakes at 50k miles (I am a careful driver). My first car, I had the front pads replaced at 115k miles. But I have standard regen on MS so I seldom use the brake; maybe at 5 MPH so the rotor should last a long time. My one time hard braking caused Brembo rotor to warp seems strange.

I did not mentioned it before because I did not think it would be relenvant but this is my second warped Brembo rotor(s). I also had a year old Brembo rotor warp on a Benz with OEM wheels.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I don't think it specifies any specific date, but rather "as needed". clearly sounds like OP needs it.

Perhaps, but if so, that's extremely dangerous language. So I can track my car ruthlessly, and because I have pre-paid service they have to keep replacing my brakes and rotors "as needed"? I doubt it.

Pre-paid service almost always includes a checklist of items that's performed at each interval. We know Tesla does this as well, because one was posted here in the past (and Tesla requested it be taken down because it was out-of-date). I doubt they'll offer services well before they're scheduled to.

I checked with installer and they told me they manually torqued at 95 ft lb. I do not think it need to be torqued exactly at MS wheel spec.

Like I said before, does anybody have any proof that lower wheel torque causes rotor warpage?

I normally replace my non-electric car brakes at 50k miles (I am a careful driver). My first car, I had the front pads replaced at 115k miles. But I have standard regen on MS so I seldom use the brake; maybe at 5 MPH so the rotor should last a long time. My one time hard braking caused Brembo rotor to warp seems strange.

I did not mentioned it before because I did not think it would be relenvant but this is my second warped Brembo rotor(s). I also had a year old Brembo rotor warp on a Benz with OEM wheels.

I'm not aware of any definitive proof that low torque leads to either warping or the appearance of warping, but as mentioned previously, too-high torques are commonly faulted for this.

Technically Tesla is on the hook to prove that low torque of the aftermarket wheels/lugs caused the issue before denying a warranty claim. Practically, they can do whatever they want unless you take them to court. Many manufacturers walk a bit of a line here, and I'm sure Tesla is no exception. Your best bet at this point is to get your case escalated beyond the SC and speak with someone with Tesla directly. Hopefully they can explain their position, and why this can be an issue. It's not time to get angry, just calmly reiterate that you're looking for answers.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

I don't think 95 ftlbs is enough torque for the weight of the Tesla. that is practically hand tight. you will probably end up with flex and loose nuts running that low of a torque

the local shop that I get tires done at use a really low spec too and I need to tighten mine further or make sure they realize how tight to torque them

 

[qwk]

I'm not aware of any definitive proof that low torque leads to either warping or the appearance of warping, but as mentioned previously, too-high torques are commonly faulted for this.

Low torque will not lead to this, but I can imagine that in some cases low torque can lead to loosened lug nuts, which could definitely cause problems.

 

[Fxyz]

I don't think 95 ftlbs is enough torque for the weight of the Tesla. that is practically hand tight. you will probably end up with flex and loose nuts running that low of a torque

the local shop that I get tires done at use a really low spec too and I need to tighten mine further or make sure they realize how tight to torque them

Model S60 weigh about the same as Benz S class (I had one so I know) and minivans (I have one so I know). I think 95 ft lb is enough since my wheels are still on the car. In the old days, I used to tighthen the nuts until I could not go any further. Over torque will strip the wheel nuts and bolts (I had that issue happen to me also and had to replace all the studs/bolts - costly).

 

[JonathanD]

I assume it's been done already but please make sure you are using the correct hub centric rings.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I don't think 95 ft lbs is enough torque for the weight of the Tesla. that is practically hand tight. you will probably end up with flex and loose nuts running that low of a torque

the local shop that I get tires done at use a really low spec too and I need to tighten mine further or make sure they realize how tight to torque them

It's certainly nowhere near hand tight. Hand tight is usually considered between 7 and 15ft lbs (or a quarter turn after finger tight). You're right in that it's not enough for the Tesla, but it's a pretty significant amount of force. No car I had before the Tesla required more than 85 ft lbs.

 

[Fxyz]

Perhaps, but if so, that's extremely dangerous language. So I can track my car ruthlessly, and because I have pre-paid service they have to keep replacing my brakes and rotors "as needed"? I doubt it.

Pre-paid service almost always includes a checklist of items that's performed at each interval. We know Tesla does this as well, because one was posted here in the past (and Tesla requested it be taken down because it was out-of-date). I doubt they'll offer services well before they're scheduled to.



I'm not aware of any definitive proof that low torque leads to either warping or the appearance of warping, but as mentioned previously, too-high torques are commonly faulted for this.

Technically Tesla is on the hook to prove that low torque of the aftermarket wheels/lugs caused the issue before denying a warranty claim. Practically, they can do whatever they want unless you take them to court. Many manufacturers walk a bit of a line here, and I'm sure Tesla is no exception. Your best bet at this point is to get your case escalated beyond the SC and speak with someone with Tesla directly. Hopefully they can explain their position, and why this can be an issue. It's not time to get angry, just calmly reiterate that you're looking for answers.

No, I am not angry; just disappointed. I just wanted to hear other Model S owner opinion. I am sure a lot of us would like to put other wheels on our car without paying TM crazy mark up on them. Maybe by denying warranty service they will prevent other owners from purchasing other wheels.

 

[Gizmotoy]

Which is why I suggested escalating.

 

[Fxyz]

Which is why I suggested escalating.

Do you have any particular person I should be contacting at TM?

 

[einTier]

I wish more people would read this article from the guys at Stop Tech: -Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths


They make very high performance brakes for racing applications and they say every single "warped" rotor they've seen is caused by uneven depositing of brake material on the disc. Have your rotors Blanchard ground.

 

[AWDtsla]

I wish more people would read this article from the guys at Stop Tech: -Warped- Brake Disc and Other Myths


They make very high performance brakes for racing applications and they say every single "warped" rotor they've seen is caused by uneven depositing of brake material on the disc. Have your rotors Blanchard ground.

I've had PepBoys swear at me that this wouldn't fix my rotors since they already had uneven heating. I had them grind them with "no guarantee", then I heat cycled them to 500F 3 times in the oven before I put them back on the car and slowly got them to "max" temperature under progressively hard braking. 50k miles later they are still as smooth as butter...

 

[DLM270]

Tesla Service replaced my rotors when the tech detected excessive vibration during braking at high speed during his test drive. I have 13,500 miles and standard 19' wheels, and was not charged for the service. We had not noticed the braking vibration because we use the regen to accomplish most of our braking. The condition did cause a "Contact Tesla Service" message on the screen.

 

[Fxyz]

Tesla Service replaced my rotors when the tech detected excessive vibration during braking at high speed during his test drive. I have 13,500 miles and standard 19' wheels, and was not charged for the service. We had not noticed the braking vibration because we use the regen to accomplish most of our braking. The condition did cause a "Contact Tesla Service" message on the screen.

So we have confirmation that it happens with OE wheels also.

 

[Fxyz]

Got a phone voice message from Mark Brooks responding to my email to TM tech support. Will call him Tuesday and let you know what he says.

 

[kevincwelch]

So, I'm a bit confused by this thread. I thought that the torque specifications were 129 foot pounds, regardless of the wheel. My OEMs 19 inch wheels are 129 foot pounds now, but so were my 19 inch Rial Luganos. Is there a different specification for the Luganos? The range of numbers people are stating here seems different to me when compared to what people mentioned in the past for any wheel put on the MS.

 

[richkae]

I checked with installer and they told me they manually torqued at 95 ft lb. I do not think it need to be torqued exactly at MS wheel spec.

Like I said before, does anybody have any proof that lower wheel torque causes rotor warpage?

I normally replace my non-electric car brakes at 50k miles (I am a careful driver). My first car, I had the front pads replaced at 115k miles. But I have standard regen on MS so I seldom use the brake; maybe at 5 MPH so the rotor should last a long time. My one time hard braking caused Brembo rotor to warp seems strange.

I did not mentioned it before because I did not think it would be relenvant but this is my second warped Brembo rotor(s). I also had a year old Brembo rotor warp on a Benz with OEM wheels.

What makes you believe that the lug nuts should be torqued to 95 ft lbs instead of the manufacturers spec?

 

[Fxyz]

What makes you believe that the lug nuts should be torqued to 95 ft lbs instead of the manufacturers spec?

Manufacture spec is for manufacture OE wheels and may not apply to all after market wheels.

I did not tell the installer what torque to use and 95 ft lb was used (they are a custom wheel installer since 1979). Wheels are still on my car so I do not see any problem here. TM OE wheels requires higher torque maybe it is a lot heavier than my wheels or maybe it is needed for the performance version which I do not have. I do not know the reason but 129 ft lb is a lot higher than normal (For example: I was looking at NIssan GTR before Model S, and GTR wheels are torqued at around 100 ft lb).

So the question is did my after market wheels at 95 ft lb caused the rotor to warp (and voided the warranty)?

 

[KenN]

So the question is did my after market wheels at 95 ft lb caused the rotor to warp (and voided the warranty)?

Because of the massive amount of torque that the motor puts to the wheels at zero speed. No other car can push its wheels that hard from dead stop. The bending forces are astounding.

You need high torque on the lug nuts to keep the wheel mated tightly to the rotor during hard acceleration.

 

[yobigd20]

So, I'm a bit confused by this thread. I thought that the torque specifications were 129 foot pounds, regardless of the wheel.

They are. It doesn't matter what wheel you mount, OEM or aftermarket. Torque spec is 129. Under torquing can be dangerous. I certainly wouldn't want my wheel flying off during heavy accel with the massive rear wheel torque or during high speed maneuvers. Whatever shop the OP went to needs to get out or the Stone Age because they clearly don't know what they are doing.