Warped brake rotors with aftermarket rims installed

[simonog]

I have after market wheel when the car had 200 miles so it can't be the wheel. I am thinking more along the line of hot rotor/disk when I had to brake hard once around 5,000 miles.

I am just surprised that the Brembo rotor warps so easily; specially for such a large diameter rotor. If current Model S rotor can't dissipate heat properly maybe TM should use other brand rotor or a slatted rotor.

In my experience on other cars you really have to heat up the brakes and then sit still with the pads touching the discs firmly enough to cause uneven cooling before discs will warp.

Giving Tesla the benefit of the doubt, if the brakes get hot and the aftermarket wheels in some way obstruct the air flow, I suppose it could exacerbate the effect. More likely I would have thought is either that a driver sits in the stationary car with the brake pedal pressed (one reason I much prefer Creep Mode to be Off to reduce the temptation to do that) or there is some issue with the resting pad position (though unlikely on all 4 wheels).

 

[Fxyz]

In my experience on other cars you really have to heat up the brakes and then sit still with the pads touching the discs firmly enough to cause uneven cooling before discs will warp.

Giving Tesla the benefit of the doubt, if the brakes get hot and the aftermarket wheels in some way obstruct the air flow, I suppose it could exacerbate the effect. More likely I would have thought is either that a driver sits in the stationary car with the brake pedal pressed (one reason I much prefer Creep Mode to be Off to reduce the temptation to do that) or there is some issue with the resting pad position (though unlikely on all 4 wheels).

Like I said my after market wheel is more open than the OE so it should dissipate heat even better than OE 21" which is of more closed face design. Also I never sits with brake pressed since once the car stops it usually do not move by itself.

The single time I had the hard braking, I had to move forward quickly right after braking 1/4 car length to prevent being rear ended.

In general after market wheels are better quality than OE. I think TM wheel are low gravity cast, my after market wheels are flow-formed.

vs

 

[yobigd20]

this isn't the first report of aftermarket wheels possible causing vibration of the brakes. there were two others that I know of. here anyone have warped rotors or brake vibration...on aftermarket wheels and here Vibration while breaking with iforged 21 wheels

I seriously doubt your rotors are warped. if anything, I'd say the installer screwed up and either the tires are out of balance, or simply the wheel wasn't mounted correctly and it's not sitting flush against the hub, the wrong size centering ring was used, the brake pads have uneven rigid wear pattern, or the wheels were not torqued to spec. BTW it is against the law for a car manufacturer to void a cars warranty due to aftermarket parts. The only time they can get out of a warranty repair is if the item in question was damaged and a direct result of an aftermarket part, and they'd also have to prove that.

 

[Electricfan]

Because I have after market wheels, brake warranty is automatically voided

Is it written somewhere in Tesla warranty that the brake warranty is "automatically" voided by using after-market wheels? I don't think so, but maybe I missed it. If not, there's no way this can be true. Plead your case higher than your local service center, I just don't believe this is accurate. I don't think your wheels caused your rotors to warp. With the traditional auto makers it's pretty typical of service centers to blame the consumer to try to avoid fixing things under warranty. They are cost centers and they're evaluated on the amount of money they spend on warranty repairs. They have to do something to minimize those costs to make goals set by management. Is Tesla different? They claim they are. The jury is still out though. Cases like this don't bode well for us owners.

If your technician actually said "automatically voided", go up the chain and get that confirmed, and ask to see it in writing.

 

[yobigd20]

if your aftermarket wheel is the same size and has the same offset (ex 40mm) and you are running tires reasonable for that wheel size then Tesla cannot void any part of your warranty. This is because the car is designed to specs and not to parts, so if you replace a part with another part that meets the spec then they have no choice but to treat the car as if it where unmodified.

your right to use aftermarket parts is federally protected by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)). If a dealer claims that a specific part has voided a portion of your warranty, it is the dealer's responsibility to prove the part was at fault.

If the aftermarket part does not match OEM specs, it is conceivable that a mfr could deny a warranty claim based on the customer fitting an aftermarket wheel that put additional stress on brake or suspension components.

 

[Fxyz]

this isn't the first report of aftermarket wheels possible causing vibration of the brakes. there were two others that I know of. here anyone have warped rotors or brake vibration...on aftermarket wheels and here Vibration while breaking with iforged 21 wheels

I seriously doubt your rotors are warped. if anything, I'd say the installer screwed up and either the tires are out of balance, or simply the wheel wasn't mounted correctly and it's not sitting flush against the hub, the wrong size centering ring was used, the brake pads have uneven rigid wear pattern, or the wheels were not torqued to spec. BTW it is against the law for a car manufacturer to void a cars warranty due to aftermarket parts. The only time they can get out of a warranty repair is if the item in question was damaged and a direct result of an aftermarket part, and they'd also have to prove that.

Wheel was balanced using RoadForce machine and mounted by tire shop specialized in after market wheels. Centering ring was sized and used. Rotor retaining screw did not touch the back pad because of backpad cut out. Wheel was torqued using well know after market torque spec. Also problem did not surfaced until recently after 6,000 miles (5,800 miles with after market wheel).

I suspected warped rotor and TM also told me warped rotor. I was told it was caused by wheel bolt under torquing. TM will remove each rotor and check for warpage by the end of this month since they are very busy right now.

 

[Fxyz]

Is it written somewhere in Tesla warranty that the brake warranty is "automatically" voided by using after-market wheels? I don't think so, but maybe I missed it. If not, there's no way this can be true. Plead your case higher than your local service center, I just don't believe this is accurate. I don't think your wheels caused your rotors to warp. With the traditional auto makers it's pretty typical of service centers to blame the consumer to try to avoid fixing things under warranty. They are cost centers and they're evaluated on the amount of money they spend on warranty repairs. They have to do something to minimize those costs to make goals set by management. Is Tesla different? They claim they are. The jury is still out though. Cases like this don't bode well for us owners.

If your technician actually said "automatically voided", go up the chain and get that confirmed, and ask to see it in writing.

I don't like to argue if that is TM policy. I guess my first experience with TM is that they are just like any other car maker and we, early adapters, are just another car customer. LOL

 

[Klaus]

@NigelM: While you're editing language, can you please also update the thread title to the actual issue, brake disk aka rotor as opposed to caliper?

 

[tga]

Wheel was torqued using well know after market torque spec.

What, exactly, does this sentence mean? What is an "after market torque spec"? Were the lugs torqued to the required 129 ft-lbs, or not?

 

[Fxyz]

@NigelM: While you're editing language, can you please also update the thread title to the actual issue, brake disk aka rotor as opposed to caliper?

Would like to but I do not think it can be edited.

 

[Klaus]

Would like to but I do not think it can be edited.

Admins can. NigelM is admin. Hence my request, since he was already bleeping out language

 

[dsm363]

What do you want to title to say? Is
'warped rotor'
ok?

- - - Updated - - -

Admins can. NigelM is admin. Hence my request, since he was already bleeping out language

NigelM is one of the other moderators as well.

What was being bleeped out? The forum software will sometimes do that automatically.

 

[Klaus]

Thanks!

---------- Update ---------

What was being bleeped out? The forum software will sometimes do that automatically.

post #16 has this at the bottom:

Last edited by NigelM; Today at 06:28 PM. Reason: Language edit

 

[jerry33]

Wheel was torqued using well know after market torque spec.

Torque specs are based on the car and the bolts, not on the wheel. 129 ft.lb. is the correct torque. My thought is that this is the problem. You now need to determine if it's the wheel or the rotor that's warped (or both).

 

[wycolo]

> In general after market wheels are better quality than OE. I think TM wheel are low gravity cast, my after market wheels are flow-formed. [Fxyz]

I don't think these assumptions apply to MS OEM rims; but more facts about these unique rims would be welcomed.


'After-market torque specs' are like 85 ft lb since these rims use tiny lug nuts that can't handle the required 130 ft lbs. So right there you've got a problem, but naturally expect TM to spend time and effort to solve it so you can continue to use someone else's rims on your MS. Like putting a puffer on a new NA Camaro and expecting the dealer to fix the (inevitably) blown engine.
--

 

[Fxyz]

> In general after market wheels are better quality than OE. I think TM wheel are low gravity cast, my after market wheels are flow-formed. [Fxyz]

I don't think these assumptions apply to MS OEM rims; but more facts about these unique rims would be welcomed.


'After-market torque specs' are like 85 ft lb since these rims use tiny lug nuts that can't handle the required 130 ft lbs. So right there you've got a problem, but naturally expect TM to spend time and effort to solve it so you can continue to use someone else's rims on your MS. Like putting a puffer on a new NA Camaro and expecting the dealer to fix the (inevitably) blown engine.
--

My wheels use sport lugs so you are correct about the torque. I will verify with the wheel installer for the exact torque used (95 ft lb manual torque).

TM test drove my car for about 10 minutes and told me the rotor was warped. TM also told me the warranty is automatically voided with after market wheels before testing.

I just do not think wheel torque causes rotor warp; maybe if you over torque them above the manufacture spec. Do you have actual knowlwdge/proof that after market wheel causes rotor warpage?

I also do not undestand your statement about puffer and blown engine.

- - - Updated - - -

Torque specs are based on the car and the bolts, not on the wheel. 129 ft.lb. is the correct torque. My thought is that this is the problem. You now need to determine if it's the wheel or the rotor that's warped (or both).

Most like it is the rotor since the brake pedal pulses when I brake. If the wheels are the problem, I should be able to feel it all the time. I had a car nut friend test drive it also and he said he did not feel anything when the car was moving. I suspected and TM also said it was the rotor(s).

Anyway, if TM would not warranty it then I just have to pay for the repair, get a set of OEM wheels, and put this set of wheels back after warranty period.

 

[yobigd20]

Anyway, if TM would not warranty it then I just have to pay for the repair, get a set of OEM wheels, and put this set of wheels back after warranty period.

aren't rotors and brakes included with the Tesla Service contract? (aka not warranty). so if you're due for service I would think they should still replace rotors and brakes for "free" and this would be billed as a service item.

 

[Fxyz]

aren't rotors and brakes included with the Tesla Service contract? (aka not warranty). so if you're due for service I would think they should still replace rotors and brakes for "free" and this would be billed as a service item.

I do not have the maintenance contract since I do not see many things needing service (I am the type of person that used to maintain their own car). Brake pads should last almost a lifetime since I rarely use the brakes.

 

[Gizmotoy]

My wheels use sport lugs so you are correct about the torque. I will verify with the wheel installer for the exact torque used.

...

I just do not think wheel torque causes rotor warp; maybe if you over torque them above the manufacture spec. Do you have actual knowlwdge/proof that after market wheel causes rotor warpage?

Wheel torque can definitely cause the rotors to warp (or at least give the appearance of warpage with pad compound deposits). This is one reason I always loosen and re-tighten lug nuts myself when any of my vehicles is in a shop and has its wheels removed. You simply can't be sure they were torqued properly unless you've checked it yourself. On my other vehicles it's always over-tightening that's a concern (impact wrenches), but given the very high torque required by the Model S, I would not be surprised if under-torquing also causes issues. So, certainly Tesla may have a point.

I don't know what you're referring to when you say "sport lugs," but your primary goal should probably be to find out how hard the wheels were torqued down. If less than spec, I think you're SOL.

aren't rotors and brakes included with the Tesla Service contract? (aka not warranty). so if you're due for service I would think they should still replace rotors and brakes for "free" and this would be billed as a service item.

Perhaps if he waited until when the service contract specifies rotor replacement. It's something like 50k miles, isn't it?

 

[yobigd20]

Perhaps if he waited until when the service contract specifies rotor replacement. It's something like 50k miles, isn't it?

I don't think it specifies any specific date, but rather "as needed". clearly sounds like OP needs it.