Top Gear Magazine: Model 3 Performance is faster around a track than the BMW M3!

[jyalpert]

A P3D costs a lot less than many competitive options. If you can afford to do track driving, you can probably afford two P3D's and a teenage assistant to shuffle them back and forth to the Supercharger! So quit your bellyaching!

Haha that would be awesome. My track car right now is a 2007 Miata. I think as modified (roll bar, coilovers, wheels/tires, sways) I'm in about $13k or so, and wear parts are relatively minimal. They're super popular in Northern Cal - great bang for the buck!

I think if I get rid of the Miata, I'd like to buy a kart, maybe a LO206 or a KT100. It seems that when you follow the performance driving rabbit hole all the way to the bottom, you end up at the 125cc shifter kart, but no way do I have the stones for that!

 

[StealthP3D]

Haha that would be awesome. My track car right now is a 2007 Miata. I think as modified (roll bar, coilovers, wheels/tires, sways) I'm in about $13k or so, and wear parts are relatively minimal. They're super popular in Northern Cal - great bang for the buck!

I think if I get rid of the Miata, I'd like to buy a kart, maybe a LO206 or a KT100. It seems that when you follow the performance driving rabbit hole all the way to the bottom, you end up at the 125cc shifter kart, but no way do I have the stones for that!

It feels so unnatural to me to drive a four-wheeled vehicle hard, the way the body rolls to the outside of the turn, the way the tread scuffs, the heavy use of big brakes, the amount of energy consumed, etc. Just get a small track bike or two and a trailer to get to the track and have some real fun! Bikes are a lot more fun to ride hard with their round profile tires, independent brakes front/rear, lighter weight, higher performance per dollar and especially that they lean the proper direction (into the inside of the corner) so everything remains balanced.

Much more engaging than any car.

 

[jyalpert]

It feels so unnatural to me to drive a four-wheeled vehicle hard, the way the body rolls to the outside of the turn, the way the tread scuffs, the heavy use of big brakes, the amount of energy consumed, etc. Just get a small track bike or two and a trailer to get to the track and have some real fun! Bikes are a lot more fun to ride hard with their round profile tires, independent brakes front/rear, lighter weight, higher performance per dollar and especially that they lean the proper direction (into the inside of the corner) so everything remains balanced.

Much more engaging than any car.

Interesting . . . I think my wife might kill me . . .

 

[brianman]

Interesting . . . I think my wife might kill me . . .

… or the bike might.

 

[SammichLover]

Much more engaging than any car.

....until there's a rumour of a hint of light dizzle somewhere in the vicinity of the track. Then you pack it in for the day.

But yes, a motorcycle is way out there on the edge of fun....and forbidden for me ever since a number of years ago I called my wife at midnight to come pick me up because I'd thoroughly trashed my bike. "Nope, you're not getting another one."

All in all probably for the best. This boo boo was all my fault but you can be the best motorcyclist operator on the planet and still there's a good chance one day someone will punch your cashing-out ticket for you. Nothing for you to do, no way to save yourself. It is really only a matter a time before you're in a seriously dangerous wreck. Keep driving long enough and it will happen.

 

[SammichLover]

It seems that when you follow the performance driving rabbit hole all the way to the bottom, you end up at the 125cc shifter kart, but no way do I have the stones for that!

Radicals seem to be at the bottom for people that like driving in their car. But amen to the "stones" requirement for a shifter kart.

 

[Zippy_EV]

Ditto.

LOL. Last HPDE I made it home with 2 percent charge. The drive home was at 50-55mph with the A/C off and windows cracked an inch for air... It's really hard not to do "one more lap" a few times!

 

[StealthP3D]

....until there's a rumour of a hint of light dizzle somewhere in the vicinity of the track. Then you pack it in for the day.

Are you saying that rain separates the men from the boys?







Yeah, you really have to pack it in when a light drizzle even hints at falling anywhere in the vicinity of the track. If your skin gets wet, you will melt.

 

[mkspeedr]

Pack it in for water??? Seriously water is fun. Snow is too just slower.

 

[jyalpert]

you can be the best motorcyclist operator on the planet and still there's a good chance one day someone will punch your cashing-out ticket for you. Nothing for you to do, no way to save yourself. It is really only a matter a time before you're in a seriously dangerous wreck. Keep driving long enough and it will happen.

This is why I quit bicycle road racing. I got crashed out at 32mph by some idiot trying to barge into our paceline. Nowhere to go, so I went rubber side up. Cracked part of my femur. Ugh.

 

[SammichLover]

Are you saying that rain separates the men from the boys?







Yeah, you really have to pack it in when a light drizzle even hints at falling anywhere in the vicinity of the track. If your skin gets wet, you will melt.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Locally, I've learned it is a good day when there's drizzle of any sort and there was a bike SRD or something on another session because you then basically get to go out on track whenever you want.

 

[Realist]

I own a Model 3 P and a BMW M2 Competition along with various other Performance Cars.

The Tesla does offer superior traction and acceleration up to app. 130 kph. The BMW has way better brakes, slightly higher cornering speeds and it pulls harder above 200 kph. Therefore I think it depends on the track which is faster. The BMW feels a lot more stable at higher speeds.

The lap time itself however does only tell you half the story. The Tesla ist outclassed other the long run mainly because power drops with lower SOC. Also brakes and tires get burned with 1850kg. It is too heavy to be a proper track car.

You can buy a 30.000 € M3 E46 including race suspension, tires, brakes, cage whatever and you have got a 340hp/1400kg car which will do sub 8 at the ring all day long.

I like driving my Model 3 but as a track tool it's still a long way to go, batteries have to get much much lighter.

 

[StealthP3D]

I like driving my Model 3 but as a track tool it's still a long way to go, batteries have to get much much lighter.

Most people don't buy a four-door sedan as a track tool.

Still, a win is a win. The clock doesn't lie. So stop raining on the parade.

 

[SammichLover]

Most people don't buy a four-door sedan as a track tool.

I certainly didn't. I bought it for driving across the country and daily commuting. Had no inkling or intention of using it as such. I'd never even heard of "Autocross" before, either. That it is, that the same car starting with something as simple as a tire swap, literally the next day after a several thousand mile trip, turned out to be entirely plausible for this use has been nothing but gravy.

Tasty, tasty gravy.

I expect this is what has made "you need to approach it this way with the Model 3" a lot easier for me to accept. That and the AWD being fairly forgiving and amendable to me going out and thrashing at things a bit when the mood hits me, a good personality fit there.

On the weight, you definitely do feel it but more than once I've had a AX ride-along that was stunned to hear afterward how heavy the car actually is given what it can do in tight confines. It doesn't handle in the same way as say a 450lb lighter vehicle but the location of the weight, effectively all well inside of the axels and very low, in a lot of ways reduces the burden of that mass.

 

[stickman]

It feels so unnatural to me to drive a four-wheeled vehicle hard, the way the body rolls to the outside of the turn, the way the tread scuffs, the heavy use of big brakes, the amount of energy consumed, etc. Just get a small track bike or two and a trailer to get to the track and have some real fun! Bikes are a lot more fun to ride hard with their round profile tires, independent brakes front/rear, lighter weight, higher performance per dollar and especially that they lean the proper direction (into the inside of the corner) so everything remains balanced.

Much more engaging than any car.

More engaging but with much more on the line than just money if you mess up. I tracked motorcycles for 10+ years and stopped about 5 years ago, and have found it very hard to go back. I was an A group rider and have thousands of motorcycle track miles. Nothing feels like an excellent fast lap on a motorcycle. But I also have 2 kids and a wife who need me mobile and functional. I have a great time tracking the 3 and knowing that even if I mess up or someone messed up in front of me, the chances are good I walk away. Can’t say the same thing with bikes. I’ve seen up close some very bad things happen when folks make small mistakes, and have woken up with paramedics working on me because someone in front of me messed up.

Anyway- they’re both fun!

 

[laalves911]

....until there's a rumour of a hint of light dizzle somewhere in the vicinity of the track. Then you pack it in for the day.

But yes, a motorcycle is way out there on the edge of fun....and forbidden for me ever since a number of years ago I called my wife at midnight to come pick me up because I'd thoroughly trashed my bike. "Nope, you're not getting another one."

All in all probably for the best. This boo boo was all my fault but you can be the best motorcyclist operator on the planet and still there's a good chance one day someone will punch your cashing-out ticket for you. Nothing for you to do, no way to save yourself. It is really only a matter a time before you're in a seriously dangerous wreck. Keep driving long enough and it will happen.

I know (knew) of quite a few bikers that eventually died of old age or various diseases without that wreck ever coming their way. That is certainly not a given. Several close encounters with the tarmac or dirt, yes. In my ~30 years of biking I've had a few. Most of them stopped or almost stopped, many out of sheer own stupidity or bad luck - forgetting to set the kickstand, getting out of the bike and it falling on you (yes, I did that), stopping at a red light and your foot slips, etc.

 

[SammichLover]

I know (knew) of quite a few bikers that eventually died of old age or various diseases without that wreck ever coming their way. That is certainly not a given. Several close encounters with the tarmac or dirt, yes. In my ~30 years of biking I've had a few. Most of them stopped or almost stopped, many out of sheer own stupidity or bad luck - forgetting to set the kickstand, getting out of the bike and it falling on you (yes, I did that), stopping at a red light and your foot slips, etc.

Oh sure dying of old age is possible. There are also plenty of "executing a pass I got a speed wobble at 90mph the first ride of spring and the bike walked itself over to the other side of the highway and into a ditch and standing water covered by 1/2" of ice, I got thrown up over the handle bars and landed in a 1' of water, got up, walked back to the bike, picked it up out of the water and broken ice and mud and drove home" types of stories. Said individual did eventually die of "old age". But that's a close enough brush to cover what I'm talking about, very dangerous situation and dumb luck that bailed him out.

My own crack up; The road curved and I didn't. A few feet either side of my path through the ditch and out, or perhaps if I hadn't been able to mostly get myself clear off the bike, and I wouldn't be typing this post. At best I'd be spending my days working on my colouring books. As it was I just got a bad sprain that I needed a little physio to clear up on my ankle that got caught at the back edge under the bike.

Before that I'd laid the bike down at very low speed. At dawn coming out of a mall parking lot on the way to work, early in the year so it was on cold tires/pavement, and the sprinklers had left a puddle on an oil spot on the pavement. Back wheel squirted out and mutilated my pride.

 

[StealthP3D]

More engaging but with much more on the line than just money if you mess up. I tracked motorcycles for 10+ years and stopped about 5 years ago, and have found it very hard to go back. I was an A group rider and have thousands of motorcycle track miles. Nothing feels like an excellent fast lap on a motorcycle. But I also have 2 kids and a wife who need me mobile and functional. I have a great time tracking the 3 and knowing that even if I mess up or someone messed up in front of me, the chances are good I walk away. Can’t say the same thing with bikes. I’ve seen up close some very bad things happen when folks make small mistakes, and have woken up with paramedics working on me because someone in front of me messed up.

Anyway- they’re both fun!

Yeah if you don't have excellent skills, best to stick to tracking in a cage or off the track altogether. Yes, there is some danger in either but ultimately it's up to the pilot to mitigate the risks. Sure, there is always risk present and it's a bit higher on a motorcycle because you are not enclosed in a cage. On the other hand, modern tracks are much safer than they were in past decades with little to hit other than other motorcycles (which are all going the same general direction).

A car is definitely not as sporting or satisfying as a motorcycle. Even though a powerful sportscar can lap most tracks faster than a sporty motorcycle, the motorcycle is more engaging and feels more harmonious. I think the whole risk thing is a bit overblown (although I do agree some people simply shouldn't ride (or even drive).

 

[stickman]

Yeah if you don't have excellent skills, best to stick to tracking in a cage or off the track altogether. Yes, there is some danger in either but ultimately it's up to the pilot to mitigate the risks. Sure, there is always risk present and it's a bit higher on a motorcycle because you are not enclosed in a cage. On the other hand, modern tracks are much safer than they were in past decades with little to hit other than other motorcycles (which are all going the same general direction).

A car is definitely not as sporting or satisfying as a motorcycle. Even though a powerful sportscar can lap most tracks faster than a sporty motorcycle, the motorcycle is more engaging and feels more harmonious. I think the whole risk thing is a bit overblown (although I do agree some people simply shouldn't ride (or even drive).

Heh. My point is that it doesn’t matter if you have “excellent skills” when tracking a motorcycle. Small mistakes can have large consequences. As I said I’ve spent years tracking motorcycles and have seen experienced racers eat it with serious consequences. They had excellent skills. It’s just much easier to hurt yourself on a bike. But I wouldn’t talk anyone out of tracking a motorcycle I just know for me, it’s a different equation these days.

 

[StealthP3D]

Heh. My point is that it doesn’t matter if you have “excellent skills” when tracking a motorcycle. Small mistakes can have large consequences. As I said I’ve spent years tracking motorcycles and have seen experienced racers eat it with serious consequences. They had excellent skills. It’s just much easier to hurt yourself on a bike. But I wouldn’t talk anyone out of tracking a motorcycle I just know for me, it’s a different equation these days.

I'm not trying to talk you back into the sport at all. I'm just saying the risk can be managed by the individual to the point where it's relatively safe. The issues arise when trying to compete at levels that push those boundaries or the skill of the rider. I get your point about not being able to prevent others from going down but even that risk can be minimized by avoiding situations that put you at highest risk for that. If you are trying to win at all costs, yes, the risk level goes up. But even those riding at the highest levels, like MotoGP, have a relatively low-risk level statistically speaking.