Theory: Model X has "transparent" A pillars (see-through video)?

[jerjozwik]

boy... the x had better have this feature otherwise you folks are going to be massively let down!

 

[goneskiian]

Before ANYONE else comments on "not seeing" the "transparent" A pillar you need to click on this link and watch the video...

Jaguar Land Rover 360 Virtual Urban Windscreen Video - YouTube

Hint: It's not ACTUALLY transparent. ;-)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

In the immortal words of "Wesley Crusher" aka Wil Wheaton in Big Bang Theory, "Well, that escalated quickly."

goneskiian, JohnSnowNW, BerTX etc. got it right - what I'm talking about should be best explained by watching the Jaguar Land Rover 360 Virtual Urban Windscreen Video, which has been on the first post the whole time.

I don't see what you're seeing.

In neither the photo nor the video am I able to see through either the A or B pillars on either side of the Model X shown. (The B pillar looks black, while the A pillar looks white.)

Let's make sure we're all talking about the same pillar:

View attachment 75811

Yes, the same A pillar. Obviously the ability to see through would only be from the inside out, not outside in, since it would be an outside camera image being displayed on the A pillar inside - not actually transparent material. The Jaguar tech demo also plays with the idea of a similar feature on B pillar, but there is no proof of B pillar action on the Model X mule imaginery. (Also, doing something on the B pillar in Model X might be more difficult due to the falcon wings... Better stick with the A pillar story.)

A "transparent" A pillar? Sorry, but that sounds like a joke to me. What material could Tesla use that would be transparent and sufficiently strong and not be incredibly expensive?

A camera and a screen embedded or projected into the A pillar.

Volvo had this on a concept C30 where they used a truss structure in the A-pillar....... but ultimately they never produced this idea. I doubt that TESLA would do it either........

To be absolutely clear, I am not talking about any kind of physical transparency or see-through material - merely video, as the name of the thread says.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think the "something" on the interior of the passenger A pillar is there way too consistently to be merely a window reflection - it shows from the side (where it can't be the windshield reflecting - indeed from that angle it seems the windshield reflects the A pillar instead) and it shows even when the car enters shade. It remains narrow on the top and a triangular shape on the bottom, following the shape of the A pillar, and it looks abnormally bright.

Now, whether or not it shows a camera image of the outside, is of course speculative.

The same bright areas on the passenger side A pillar show in the static spy shots taken in a different place at a different time (and perhaps of a different car judging by the rims), bright A pillar shape showing through actual windscreen reflections again in that very specific shape in all the photos that show the passenger A pillar.

Tesla Model X spy art -- Automotive News Photo Gallery

Looks like some sort of reflection in the windshield glass to me. You can see a similar glint in the middle of the windshield as the car accelerates away. Between 0:16 and 0:17 in the video.

I mentioned the windscreen glare in the other thread as well, and to me it could be further proof that there is a display of some sort/some reason on the passenger side A pillar (and if so, I assume on the driver side as well) which could be reflecting (from the point of view of the filming person) from the windscreen when filmed from the side. The reflection is abnormally bright, which could be explained by a screen inside.

As said, Jaguar has already demonstrated this concept, so it isn't completely out there that Tesla might have implemented it - many such technologies come from companies (like Bosch) that sell assistance systems to many car makers. Now, none of this, of course, means Tesla will launch with such a feature - even if they are testing it and our assumption broadly correct, it might only come out later or the screen might be used to, say, display the side mirror cameras instead, though doing only the latter wouldn't make sense with the display seeming to extend upwards of the A pillar.

Actually all I see in that first link is a really poorly fitting front passenger door, with the glass extending away from the vehicle body.

There are some poorly fitting panels in the mule(s) for sure, which is to be expected. The front windows have been "hanging out" in all the mule shots I recall (similar to when Model S windows freeze shut and remain perched outside of the chrome trim on top), so that part may also be affected by some testing gear peaking out (some earlier mule shots have shown wiring or taping in the area) aerodynamical experimenting or somesuch reason.

Yes, A-Pillar. In the video when you look through the windshield you see some odd images along the passenger side A-pillar, like perhaps a video display of what is outside the car. Perhaps they have some sort of flexible display panel mounted inside the car along the A-pillar to act as a vertical video screen to show some useful information. It is an area that is otherwise just wasted in your field of view. Perhaps it is there getting ready for the cameras to replace the real mirrors (if they are allowed to sell it that way), but for now the car still seems to have regular side view mirrors.

I agree it is also possible the mule(s) or Model X with such a feature could display something else on the A pillar, than just an outside camera image. I agree that it is inconclusive what exactly the pillar displays in the images and video, if indeed it displays something. But the Jaguar video concept would make most immediate sense, I think.

 

[Earlian]

That foil was it, what I meant two days ago in the mule thread.

But i won't go with transparency or LCD-city.

It's more, like they are hiding the part, where we would suggest something that has to do with the side mirror replacement.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That foil was it, what I meant two days ago in the mule thread.

But i won't go with transparency or LCD-city.

It's more, like they are hiding the part, where we would suggest something that has to do with the side mirror replacement.

Shiny tin foil covering the interior of the A pillar certainly is an interesting theory, and anything is possible at this point, but especially the top of the pillar seems awfully specific in shape to be camouflage - and it remains very bright even when the car enters shade, suggesting self-illumination from the part in the A pillar.

Jaguar has shown the A pillar see-through camera concept and so far that is the only idea that makes sense all the way up the A pillar. If it was simply a side-mirror replacing camera screen they are hiding, why would the foil extent all the way up in a very specific shape.

I like the guy who brought up Occam's Razor in the other thread. I think the A pillar shown here has lights of some sort and the simplest explanation would be a screen. What for and will it even be released, now, that of course remains to be seen.

 

[Cattledog]

We can call the foldable digital screen on the A pillar the 'Shroud of Fremont'!

Though as we move toward autopilot, the ability for a driver to see everywhere diminishes. Paradox.

 

[ecarfan]

Model X has "transparent" A pillars (see-through video)?

Obviously the ability to see through would only be from the inside out, not outside in, since it would be an outside camera image being displayed on the A pillar inside - not actually transparent material.
A camera and a screen embedded or projected into the A pillar.
To be absolutely clear, I am not talking about any kind of physical transparency or see-through material - merely video, as the name of the thread says.

Thank you for the clarification, now I understand. I did some searching and it seems that the Jaguar/Land Rover feature is just a "concept " at this point. But it's an interesting one. Thanks.

 

[Zythryn]

I like the idea, I just don't think this shows "proof".
Perhaps a hint of a possibility.
More like "just enough to let people see what they want to" :tongue:

 

[AnxietyRanger]

TMC sure is the toughest possible audience to convince anyone of any possibility. Unless one is Elon Musk, of course. Fair enough, as it should be.

It is possible there is merely shiny camo in the interior in this area, for sure. As I agreed, there is not enough evidence to say what, if anything, the bright area is showing. Even the tin foil idea, no matter how funny it sounds, is perfectly possible.

But it seems pretty obvious from both photographs and video that *something* strange is happening in this area. If so, that does beg the question though: What is the bright stuff hiding?

It could be related to the side mirror cameras or merely to some mule testing setup - to make it clear, I am not suggesting this is proof Model X Signature will ship with transparent A pillars. But I do think there is enough proof something unusual is in this area, not merely window reflections. It does not seem like it would be just any regular old A pillar there looking like that.

The Jaguar example (true, a concept) could certainly explain why nearly the full length of the A pillar would be covered with bright stuff. Of other ideas, perhaps only the test mule rigging seems plausible to me so far, as a side-mirror camera camo probably wouldn't take as much space.

 

[NigelM]

Tin foil. Lots of uses from disguise to insulation to hats. ;-)

 

[toby_wan_kenoby]

I don't think the screens in the A pillar would emulate "transparency". When looking outside the eyes have to focus 10m or more ahead and to see the image on the A pillar the eyes would have to refocus on the screen a mere meter away. So one can not blend outside with the screen image which would be necessary to make the pillar "disappear". One would see a blurred something instead of the pillar but not a continuous image (outside view/pillar screen mix)
I think it is much likelier that the A pillar screens will be showing a side mirror image. Maybe once legislation allows the actual physical side mirrors can just be discarded?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Tin foil. Lots of uses from disguise to insulation to hats. ;-)

It would certainly be ironic to conceal (or mislead) with actual tinfoil. Tesla, of all car companies, might be that cheeky.

 

[Trev Page]

I think what you're seeing there is the A pillar airbags since the pillar cladding is not installed.

These pictures from a German mag just showed up and if you look closely at the first 2 pictures I think you'll agree with my statement.

http://www.autobild.de/bilder/erlkoenig-bildergalerie-die-autos-von-morgen-4553257.html#bild11

More interestingly however is the last picture in the series. The passenger side window has a huge gap when closed. Those are some seriously bad fitting body panels or they're still working out the fit and finish.

EDIT: Take a look at the last picture in the gallery: Passenger side has a charge port!!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I don't think the screens in the A pillar would emulate "transparency". When looking outside the eyes have to focus 10m or more ahead and to see the image on the A pillar the eyes would have to refocus on the screen a mere meter away. So one can not blend outside with the screen image which would be necessary to make the pillar "disappear". One would see a blurred something instead of the pillar but not a continuous image (outside view/pillar screen mix)

The optical part of the equation would have to be solved, sure, but it seems at least Jaguar / Land Rover is working on solving it. Mercedes has also shown some pretty wild virtual windscreen stuff. It doesn't seem impossible Tesla might do this as well, especially if some automotive parts maker is supplying the basic system to many vendors, like happens with many assistance systems.

I think it is much likelier that the A pillar screens will be showing a side mirror image. Maybe once legislation allows the actual physical side mirrors can just be discarded?

Perfectly possible, of course. Although that doesn't quite explain why the camo would extend so up. It could be just added disguise or concealing testing setup, cables etc., of course.

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I think what you're seeing there is the a pillar airbags since the pillar cladding is not installed.

These pictures from a German mag just showed up and if you look closely at the first 2 pictures I think you'll agree with my statement.

http://www.autobild.de/bilder/erlkoenig-bildergalerie-die-autos-von-morgen-4553257.html#bild11

More interestingly however is the last picture in the series. The passenger side window has a huge gap when closed. Those are some seriously bad fitting body panels or they're still working out the fit and finish.

That is actually a very good alternative theory of what we are seeing. I have torn apart some cars in my time and seen what those A pillar airbags look like. It would explain the shape. I'm not sure I agree the spy shots are conclusive proof, but it is a very good alternative explanation of what they could be. I'm just not quite seeing that in the video... If the A pillar cover is missing, wouldn't there be any other shiny bits, metal etc. shining from underneath...

But sure, a very real possibility.

We have seen previous Model X mules with wiring around the front window - that wiring could go or have gone to some test rigging in this area, which could then explain the removal of the A pillar cover, which would expose internals.

Thinking about your proposal, if it is true, that begs the next question though: Why is the A pillar not in place? Merely because of some test rigging (very possible, as said) or because showing the part would expose something they want to hide (related to external cameras perhaps)?

 

[Nubo]

Before ANYONE else comments on "not seeing" the "transparent" A pillar you need to click on this link and watch the video...

Jaguar Land Rover 360 Virtual Urban Windscreen Video - YouTube

Hint: It's not ACTUALLY transparent. ;-)

And, it's not actually there. :smile:
Looks like a simulation to me. Additionally, there is the issue of parallax. The image would have to be presented to match the perspective from the driver's eyes. This is not the case in the video -- the view is conveniently tuned to the position of "our" perspective from the backseat. And in real life the challenge would be greater. The perspective will not be accurate for any passengers -- presenting a discordant and perhaps disagreeable imagery that doesn't match the outside view. Also drivers change position so the system would at a minimum need to take actual eye position into account. And since we have binocular vision, it will never be as good or as seamless as that Jaguar simulation.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Looking at the middle bottom frame above, the long top part would be the airbag and the lower triangle perhaps unrelated electronics inside the A pillar?

Now, someone decipher what those electronics can be... the level of detail should be sufficient, if you bring your own tin-foil...

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And, it's not actually there. :smile:
Looks like a simulation to me. Additionally, there is the issue of parallax. The image would have to be presented to match the perspective from the driver's eyes. This is not the case in the video -- the view is conveniently tuned to the position of "our" perspective from the backseat. And in real life the challenge would be greater. The perspective will not be accurate for any passengers -- presenting a discordant and perhaps disagreeable imagery that doesn't match the outside view. Also drivers change position so the system would at a minimum need to take actual eye position into account. And since we have binocular vision, it will never be as good or as seamless as that Jaguar simulation.

Yes, Jaguar simulated it. I never suggested a potential Tesla implementation would look exactly like the video. The transparent hood at their Land Rover side is also an interesting concept: Land Rover’s Transparent Hood Is Technology From The Future: Video

That said, I'm liking the A pillar cover removal theory better. What is interesting is the question what, if anything, removing this cover could be hiding - or is it just test rigging, removed due to perhaps some measurement equipment etc.

 

[Zarwin]

Another thing to note about transparent/see-through issues is parallax. The image would have to be perfectly calibrated to the driver only and would look completely wrong to anyone else in the car. Sure they don't need to use it for safety, but aesthetically it would be annoying I would think.

Edit: nevermind, I see someone mentioned parallax a couple of posts up...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Another thing to note about transparent/see-through issues is parallax. The image would have to be perfectly calibrated to the driver only and would look completely wrong to anyone else in the car. Sure they don't need to use it for safety, but aesthetically it would be annoying I would think.

Edit: nevermind, I see someone mentioned parallax a couple of posts up...

I guess, to an extent, companies are already dealing with that in HUDs, but certainly an interesting topic.

There was a very good article written in similar vein on why "3D will never work" a few years ago. Always a good read: Why 3D doesn't work and never will. Case closed. | Roger Ebert's Journal | Roger Ebert

I still watch 3D movies at times, though.

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On a tangent: Jaguar has actually hired some pretty impressive camera folks over the recent years. They are investing heavily in stuff like this. I wouldn't be quite so skeptical about their ability to execute.

Maybe Tesla's approach is removing stuff from the A pillar until one can see through it.

 

[Twiddler]

What if, instead of using both sides of the driver display (as seen in the concept MX) in order to display rear view video, the video was displayed on the pillars themselves. This would of course mean that the mirrors are in place on the current test vehicle as a back-up, to throw people off, or until this technology is approved. I think this is much more compelling than just "see-through" pillars