They could also put in
Yes.virtual queues
No.and reservations
By its very nature, reservations hold stalls UNUSED, and is therefore reducing the efficiency of the utilization of the resource.
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They could also put in
Yes.virtual queues
No.and reservations
There are ways to do reservations that don't do that. In particular, this is true because with Teslas, the car/system know where you are and where you are going, and whether you will make your reservation. Particularly on long trips that means a lot of advance notice when you won't make it to allocate it to people in the virtual queue.By its very nature, reservations hold stalls UNUSED, and is therefore reducing the efficiency of the utilization of the resource.
There are ways to do reservations that don't do that. In particular, this is true because with Teslas, the car/system know where you are and where you are going, and whether you will make your reservation. Particularly on long trips that means a lot of advance notice when you won't make it to allocate it to people in the virtual queue.
The main problem is what to do with people who miss their reservation through no fault of their own -- surprise traffic jams, weather, road closures etc. In this case you can either cancel their reservation to assure no wasted time on the charger, or give them some priority in the virtual queue so that they don't wait too long when they finally do get there. Either, but especially the former, mean the driver plans to get there before their reservation and leaves time in their schedule for surprises -- as you do for any hard deadline like catching a plane etc. It should be very rare that a stall just sits there waiting for the driver who reserved it.
This does mean that if a driver arrives unplanned at a stall that's reserved 5 minutes from now, they get told, "you only get to charge for 5 minutes. Be in your car waiting for the reserved driver to arrive, and if you don't, you will pay very high idle fees." That driver, waiting in their car is given an alert that the reserved driver will be there in 60 seconds and they unplug and drive out, then wait for the next free slot.
So reduction in efficiency should be slow. Of course the goal here is that a driver who does make and sticks to a plan gets a reliable experience. And other drivers who can't get a reservation modify their plans, and charge at other chargers, or drive at a different time, or wait in virtual queues for the timeslots that become available. This is only in the most overloaded times of the year. Most of the time the reservations will turn out to do nothing, you arrive at your reservation and there are multiple free slots.
Hotels also need to start making it possible to reserve chargers during the night. When I plan to stay at a hotel with charging, I will arrive at that hotel quite low, and I need that charge slot, and if I don't get it, it can be trouble -- or at best an hour delay to get to and use a supercharger in the morning. Hotel reservations though can mean inefficient use. Hotels should eventually put in *lots* of plugs, with power sharing of the plugs, so there is never not a plug, but your plug won't be full current all night if you don't need it. Alternately hotels should space out chargers so that 2-4 cars can park in range of the unit, and a hotel employee can come out in the night and swap plugs -- or get the keys and valet the cars in and out. But that costs money to have staff do that, of course, though many hotels have fairly idle night staff.
I’d stay at a hotel with valet charging if that becomes a thing, that amenity may attract more guests than a swimming pool.There are ways to do reservations that don't do that. In particular, this is true because with Teslas, the car/system know where you are and where you are going, and whether you will make your reservation. Particularly on long trips that means a lot of advance notice when you won't make it to allocate it to people in the virtual queue.
The main problem is what to do with people who miss their reservation through no fault of their own -- surprise traffic jams, weather, road closures etc. In this case you can either cancel their reservation to assure no wasted time on the charger, or give them some priority in the virtual queue so that they don't wait too long when they finally do get there. Either, but especially the former, mean the driver plans to get there before their reservation and leaves time in their schedule for surprises -- as you do for any hard deadline like catching a plane etc. It should be very rare that a stall just sits there waiting for the driver who reserved it.
This does mean that if a driver arrives unplanned at a stall that's reserved 5 minutes from now, they get told, "you only get to charge for 5 minutes. Be in your car waiting for the reserved driver to arrive, and if you don't, you will pay very high idle fees." That driver, waiting in their car is given an alert that the reserved driver will be there in 60 seconds and they unplug and drive out, then wait for the next free slot.
So reduction in efficiency should be slow. Of course the goal here is that a driver who does make and sticks to a plan gets a reliable experience. And other drivers who can't get a reservation modify their plans, and charge at other chargers, or drive at a different time, or wait in virtual queues for the timeslots that become available. This is only in the most overloaded times of the year. Most of the time the reservations will turn out to do nothing, you arrive at your reservation and there are multiple free slots.
Hotels also need to start making it possible to reserve chargers during the night. When I plan to stay at a hotel with charging, I will arrive at that hotel quite low, and I need that charge slot, and if I don't get it, it can be trouble -- or at best an hour delay to get to and use a supercharger in the morning. Hotel reservations though can mean inefficient use. Hotels should eventually put in *lots* of plugs, with power sharing of the plugs, so there is never not a plug, but your plug won't be full current all night if you don't need it. Alternately hotels should space out chargers so that 2-4 cars can park in range of the unit, and a hotel employee can come out in the night and swap plugs -- or get the keys and valet the cars in and out. But that costs money to have staff do that, of course, though many hotels have fairly idle night staff.
Why a horrible experience? You would plan your Thanksgiving drive to Grandma's house for today using the standard interface of Tesla's nav planner or a web tool like ABRP. It would plot a drive for you with reservations. It would add some "slop" and you would tune that as you liked. That would mean that, if you got to your reservation area early, you might be slotted in early if there is capacity, or you might have to start your activity (shopping, charging, whatever) sooner to wait for your reservation time. Or just wait around, which is the price of having a guaranteed plan. At shared v2 chargers, the system will give you enough current for your assured reservation time, so being the first of the pair might not work quite as it does today.Reservations at Superchargers sound like a horrible user experience. I’m not even sure what problem such a system would solve.
For destination charging, sure, reservations could make sense, but that would also require increased patrol of ICEing so that reservation holders can be confident that their charging station will actually be available.
It will come, but even better will be charging systems specifically designed for hotels and EV driving guests.I’d stay at a hotel with valet charging if that becomes a thing, that amenity may attract more guests than a swimming pool.
The peak does't require doubling the number of chargers.Most Tesla owners are aware of the Thanksgiving overcrowding at Lunch time. Smart ones will watch their displays and charge up before the crowds arrive. Charging before 10:30 or after 2:00 will help prevent these long lines from forming.
Interesting to note that along I-5 on Holiday weekends, even the gas stations will have long lines, with hurried drivers jockeying for the fastest lines. Also long lines at restaurants at Lunchtime. Would be economically foolish for Tesla to build twice as many chargers for just these few days of the year. They would sit unused 99% of the time.
Literally impossible because of the definition of reservation.There are ways to do reservations that don't do that.
I'm definitely watching to see how today and Sunday go. As you and most agree, it seems impractical to build up I-5 to make Thanksgiving the typical no wait experience. No other interval compares. At least not at this point in time. But with the surge in sales and SC expansion, how is it looking? If I had to do it, I think I might try to avoid what I would expect to be the main bottlenecks like Kettleman coming from the Bay Area, and instead charge earlier, so I could bypass the middle zone. And since speeds are likely to be lower due to congestion, range should get me fairly close to LA for the big topoff. Maybe that means just 2 stops instead of the 2.5 I needed for my last (and only) trip since getting the MYP. ( I didn't help by doing a lot of 90+ on the way home late at night. )Most Tesla owners are aware of the Thanksgiving overcrowding at Lunch time. Smart ones will watch their displays and charge up before the crowds arrive. Charging before 10:30 or after 2:00 will help prevent these long lines from forming.
Interesting to note that along I-5 on Holiday weekends, even the gas stations will have long lines, with hurried drivers jockeying for the fastest lines. Also long lines at restaurants at Lunchtime. Would be economically foolish for Tesla to build twice as many chargers for just these few days of the year. They would sit unused 99% of the time.
if the need for strict management is found, Tesla could prevent cars without clearance from receiving any juice, and even bill them for trying. It could be as controlling as "you are now clear to go to stall 8" or more simply "you may now plug in to an open stall." It relies to a degree on people leaving the stall shortly after they unplug. But more critically, not sure how it plays with non Teslas when they become part of the customer base. How is it done in the EU? How does the SC recognize a unique non Tesla, or can it? If it can't, then any sort of queuing system seems unachievable.I like the idea of smart queue and demand management through the car’s nav system, but it seems to me there are way too many variables and bad human behaviors to account for in the outright reservation scenario. Just too much to go wrong and diminish the experience.
That is handled differently. You are thinking plug in first, and then can the station recognize it? But there, non-Tesla car owners have to use Tesla's mobile app to select the station and then select the stall they want to use, and then activate it. So they are very directly telling Tesla that they are a non-Tesla car about to try to use that station.How is it done in the EU? How does the SC recognize a unique non Tesla, or can it?
from a system engineering perspective, it would have been better to make non Tesla customers purchase some sort of adapter/dongle with a serial number, so they could enjoy the same plug and play functionality. It would still be more awkward to incorporate them into a virtual queuing system as they would need to interact with the smart phone to book intent, and then get clearance, versus the Tesla nav system handling it.That is handled differently. You are thinking plug in first, and then can the station recognize it? But there, non-Tesla car owners have to use Tesla's mobile app to select the station and then select the stall they want to use, and then activate it. So they are very directly telling Tesla that they are a non-Tesla car about to try to use that station.
You mean "literally" in the metaphorical sense, then? I use literally to mean strictly.Literally impossible because of the definition of reservation.
The scheduling shifts from an individual queuing entry system to one more akin to ATC for SFO when the cloud cover is high. Most people would prefer the normal first come, first served method, but the better system answer would be to prioritize by SoC and destination, and as you say, limited charging to clear the bottleneck.It's not perfect. With the closed highway problem in the central valley of 2019, everybody will miss their reservation and so everybody waits. Frankly, I am not sure how to solve the problem of a highway being closed and suddenly releasing all the EVs at once. You can improve it, by trying to distribute those EVs to all the stations they can reach, forcing people who can reach a further station to go for that one etc. You might dispatch trucks with batteries to get people enough juice to reach another charger, or also forcing people who make the charger to only spend 10 minutes to give them enough to reach a different charger. Indeed, you might create a whole new series of reservations so that you say, "OK, 5,000 cars just got released from the traffic jam and all want to charge, and you allocate a plan of reservations to give the cars just enough time at the nearby chargers to get them to assured reservations at later chargers. Nobody who is full is allowed to charge at the early chargers."
It's not clear how to solve it with pure FCFS. You could do that with a rule that says, "You only get enough to reach the next SC in your plan, sorry." And very heavy idle fees after you reach that SoC. (Or perhaps charge $5/kWh after you reach that SoC, not actually shut you down.)The scheduling shifts from an individual queuing entry system to one more akin to ATC for SFO when the cloud cover is high. Most people would prefer the normal first come, first served method, but the better system answer would be to prioritize by SoC and destination, and as you say, limited charging to clear the bottleneck.
The grapevine does shut down a lot, and the Tule fog is common at times of year, so the problem there is a reoccurring one. Locating SCs on either end of common roadblocks seems advisable - could direct those under 50% to immediately make use of them.
it feels like a fun problem for the machine learning programmers, both academically and for real. like with the airplane boarding challenge, a lot of theories to test out. And Tesla has the data from CA drivers to feed into the scenario. The main variable is how well or badly people will behave.It's not clear how to solve it with pure FCFS. You could do that with a rule that says, "You only get enough to reach the next SC in your plan, sorry." And very heavy idle fees after you reach that SoC. (Or perhaps charge $5/kWh after you reach that SoC, not actually shut you down.)
But in this case the master computer in the cloud knows everything -- every car going to the chargers, what SoC they have, how much they need to get to the next charger, anticipated loads and waits at the remote chargers. It can make an optimal plan that it is unlikely any organic first come first served approach can match.
Better to solve for the system, but to date, individuals still get full free will, other than to leave their car blocking the station after the charge completes. But if the answer is choice, then there are the locations like Kettleman with two lots. One can be the free for all, and the other is the reservation only one.But you can also say "80% of stalls is for those who participate in the plan, 20% are first come first serve, you pick which set you want to join."
No! I definitely don't. I hate that.You mean "literally" in the metaphorical sense, then?
Of course--because that is what the word means, and that's how I'm using it.I use literally to mean strictly.
Yes, basically. It is HOLDING the item for a SPECIFIC person. But that is why there is this unavoidable problem that this can't ever be perfectly exact timing all of the time, so there WILL be unused idle time.The definition of a reservation is a guarantee is a promise to have something available IF you show up within a time window.
Exactly. How late?! 15 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? That is some amount of time that the stall is being wasted. There are various things to try to lower the amount of time the resource sits unused but can't eliminate it if it's a reservation.The reservation can vanish if you are late.