Tesla Vision

[GeorgeSymonds]

Why would the average punter read a forum before purchasing a car?

I agree, I think this group is sometimes like a self help group, people come hear after the event to share their gripes and get help.

If we think parking sensors are bad, I think indicator buttons will be bigger. The latest Model S and X buyers are small in number and typically seem to be existing owners who are prepared to suffer for their loyalty. I worry about people blindly ordering a salary sacrifice M3 not even realising the indicator stalks have gone because they test drove in August and ordered in September.

 

[Whyone]

In the current wet weather we are having in the SE, all it takes is a 2 mile drive on the country roads around our home for the rear camera to become dirty and Park Assist to gleefully announce that it is 'degraded'.

Tesla assured me that this is a problem which is being worked on and solutions will be rolled-out. This was 6 months ago and I remain highly sceptical that a solution will be provided, particularly as Tesla told me in August that in their opinion Vision based PA had achieved 'performance parity' with the old USS system.

 

[Pagemakers]

In the current wet weather we are having in the SE, all it takes is a 2 mile drive on the country roads around our home for the rear camera to become dirty and Park Assist to gleefully announce that it is 'degraded'.

Tesla assured me that this is a problem which is being worked on and solutions will be rolled-out. This was 6 months ago and I remain highly sceptical that a solution will be provided, particularly as Tesla told me in August that in their opinion Vision based PA had achieved 'performance parity' with the old USS system.

How can they fix a dirty rear camera? Are they planning to install the world’s smallest wash wipe?

For the past 7 years I set off to work this time of year and within 60 seconds of being in the car I’m getting “multiple cameras blocked or blinded”. Don’t hold your breath on anything being fixed with this current hardware. If it can be fixed it would be by now.

 

[MidBaz]

I can't tell you how many forums ('fora') I looked at, and how many YouTube videos I watched. This was back in Feb/March and I had to place an order as my Audi was sold. At that time no-one, and I mean no-one, could tell me definitively where my MYP would be coming from (China or Berlin) let alone which features it would/would not have. Parcel shelf, mud flaps, USS, HW4 or 3, China paint or Berlin paint, etc, etc, etc? I had to make a decision and I made it based on the general consensus on the MYP which was very positive, plus the fact it had such a short lead time in comparison to the Audi (18 - 24 months!!!).

So now I have my Tesla and what do I think?

• Generally a very, very good car. No issues (yet) with build quality, panel gaps, etc
• HW3. Debate continues to rage as to whether that's better/worse than HW4
• Very comfy seats but not supportive enough. The Chinese build does not have the boosted side support/double stitching
• It came with parcel shelf, home charge lead, front mud flaps (why no rear mud flaps?), and a Chinese paint job which looks great but will it stand the test of time?
• Gorgeous looking but frighteningly vulnerable uberturbine wheels. Honestly, who would design that combination of wheel/tyre?
• And of course, no USS. Tesla Vision is awful. Absolutely dreadful. In tandem with the wheels I think any owner just has to accept kerb (curb) rash is an inevitability

Also, coming from a background of Audi's it was not particularly easy to understand the difference between AP, EAP and FSD. Some features which overlap what I had in my previous cars. I went for EAP only to find on delivery (as I suspected would happen pre-delivery as I was still checking the fora!) that many of the EAP features are not 'yet' available. I've still paid for it though!

So feel free to drop the patronising comments ref potential buyers doing their due diligence. It would be much more helpful if Tesla would provide clarity to newbies as to just what they are ordering versus exactly what they are likely to get. Go on Elon, take the guesswork out of it

 

[init6]

As far as parking sensors on cars goes nowadays, the argument that one should have to have done a forum deep dive before buying to understand that Tesla's version of parking sensors just doesn't work is ludicrous. Parking sensors are so ubiquitous on everything else nowadays, and for some time, that everyone rightly takes it for granted that their new £40k+ car has them. I'd argue they are as expected nowadays as electric windows are.

You hardly have to do a deep dive in the forum - almost every second post mentions how bad (people think) Vision is.
If I'm plonking down £40k+ then I'd certainly do a deep dive - and did, hence why I don't have EAP or FSD.

It's permitted because no one has challenged Tesla in a meaningful way on it in court, and the mainstream media, and reviewers, continue to cover Teslas incredulously without mentioning any of these shortcomings, either because they want to ensure future access to review cars, or because it doesn't even occur to them to check. I can't imagine reviewers nowadays even bothering to check how well the parking sensors work or if they're even fitted, they just take it as read that they are. You have to be an owner or have done a deep dive in forums, etc to find this info out in advance.

I'd argue Tesla get away with this because people keep buying their cars. Again, deep dive not needed. A simple google on Tesla issues gives you a plethora of pages to read from.

I particularly queried the purchase of EAP as even the Tesla sales pages says that 3 out of the 5 features are 'upcoming' I was curious to find out if those features were important to someone buying it today or if they were believing the promises of the seller.

 

[WllXM]

How can they fix a dirty rear camera? Are they planning to install the world’s smallest wash wipe?

They can look at what other manufacturers do, like BMW and just run a small line from the windscreen washer

 

[Zilla91]

They can look at what other manufacturers do, like BMW and just run a small line from the windscreen washer

@spdpsba won't like that

 

[Pagemakers]

But the car is already built. That’s one hell of an after market mod.

 

[Roy Batty]

VW and Merc both have reversing cameras that fold out of the rear badge so never get dirty, either that or a washer jet is very sensible as in winter they become useless after one commute.

 

[Durzel]

You hardly have to do a deep dive in the forum - almost every second post mentions how bad (people think) Vision is.
If I'm plonking down £40k+ then I'd certainly do a deep dive - and did, hence why I don't have EAP or FSD.

I'd argue Tesla get away with this because people keep buying their cars. Again, deep dive not needed. A simple google on Tesla issues gives you a plethora of pages to read from.

I particularly queried the purchase of EAP as even the Tesla sales pages says that 3 out of the 5 features are 'upcoming' I was curious to find out if those features were important to someone buying it today or if they were believing the promises of the seller.

That is fair.

I will say, however, that when I bought my car I had done a test drive and was blown away by AP (compared to what I had been driving previously) and Tesla told me that FSD would be "Coming later this year". If I had ordered when it said "Upcoming" instead I would have been more circumspect.

I was lucky (?) in that on the car I bought I mostly got what I paid for (FSD notwithstanding).. I have parking sensors that work the same as they have done on my previous cars. I was caught out by the lack of a rain sensor, again this is not something I would have even thought to research or test on a test drive, I maintain that certain tech is at the point now and has been for several years where it is taken for granted. By the same token I wouldn't expect to have to check whether a modern car I'm buying has electric windows. Auto headlights was similarly complete pants for the longest time, only being fixed last year if I recall. Again, both auto wipers and auto headlights are so ubiquitous that I - perhaps wrongly? - wouldn't have even thought to test them on a test drive, and depending on when I did it might not have been able to anyway.

I would also strongly agree with @Leytonstone's erudite point that for every negative opinion about features there are people who rush to defend it uncritically either because they have skin in the game (e.g. shares) or because - being brutally honest - they are just more susceptible to bullshit claims. Both positions can be hyperbolic, and sometimes both correct. For example - I've only ever had one phantom braking incident but I've heard people who claim they experience them regularly... I wouldn't come on a forum and proclaim that it's a non-existant problem because i don't experience it, but people do...

 

[spdpsba]

@spdpsba won't like that

I don’t like that idea not for any idealogical reasons but the small motor normally runs these costs around £200-300 and you don’t want that extra expense if it breaks down. Not saying that is what BMW has done here but knowing that their customers wants to spend money on their product (according to the BMW Chief) so may be that is some extra money for the BMW chief to decorate the moat around his house or something along those lines .

 

[Pagemakers]

After a few days of driving round the muddy UK the side front cameras are filthy and unusable. What happens to those?

As it stands it’s a fundamental design flaw that cannot be fixed as the poster above has been assured to the contrary by Tesla.

 

[MidBaz]

That is fair.

I will say, however, that when I bought my car I had done a test drive and was blown away by AP (compared to what I had been driving previously) and Tesla told me that FSD would be "Coming later this year". If I had ordered when it said "Upcoming" instead I would have been more circumspect.

I was lucky (?) in that on the car I bought I mostly got what I paid for (FSD notwithstanding).. I have parking sensors that work the same as they have done on my previous cars. I was caught out by the lack of a rain sensor, again this is not something I would have even thought to research or test on a test drive, I maintain that certain tech is at the point now and has been for several years where it is taken for granted. By the same token I wouldn't expect to have to check whether a modern car I'm buying has electric windows. Auto headlights was similarly complete pants for the longest time, only being fixed last year if I recall. Again, both auto wipers and auto headlights are so ubiquitous that I - perhaps wrongly? - wouldn't have even thought to test them on a test drive, and depending on when I did it might not have been able to anyway.

I would also strongly agree with @Leytonstone's erudite point that for every negative opinion about features there are people who rush to defend it uncritically either because they have skin in the game (e.g. shares) or because - being brutally honest - they are just more susceptible to bullshit claims. Both positions can be hyperbolic, and sometimes both correct. For example - I've only ever had one phantom braking incident but I've heard people who claim they experience them regularly... I wouldn't come on a forum and proclaim that it's a non-existant problem because i don't experience it, but people do...

Absolutely agree with last para in particular. For every review I found which stated that Tesla Vision was flaky at best, there was another saying how good it is. And even those that said it couldn't be trusted tended to throw in the caveat that 'it will probably be improved by software updates'. As I pointed out previously, at the point of ordering, it was difficult to be sure where my car was coming from or whether it had missed the cut for USS, so I couldn't say for sure whether it was a problem for me or not.

Another example was the upgraded 'comfort' suspension. From all the reviews (during my deep-dive) I followed it seemed 'likely' that the car I ordered would come with the comfort suspension, but no-one was able to say that for sure. Happily, it did indeed have that upgrade.

Believe me, I deep-dived, then made a decision. But due to the factors I've mentioned (and others) it was impossible to make a fully informed decision. I thought there would be value to others on this forum in knowing how that has worked out for me personally.

Hindsight of course is a wonderful thing and if I knew then what I know now would I have bought it? Probably, but I'd be much more content and would have less grounds for complaining if the clarity was there in the first place and I knew therefore just what I was buying. And none of this rhetoric changes the fact that Tesla Vision continues to be awful. At least until that software update

 

[Durzel]

On a fundamental level I don't think people should have to be doing deep dives on basic convenience stuff. How far does it actually travel, what Autopilot is like on unqualified roads, etc - sure.. but not "do the wipers work the same way as they've done on every car I've owned in the last 10 years or more?"

Not knowing if you're going to get a revised part or not until the day of delivery is unacceptable too, although I suppose you could argue that the order page didn't say you were getting "comfort suspension". Probably should be grateful it HAS suspension

 

[Jason71]

Absolutely agree with last para in particular. For every review I found which stated that Tesla Vision was flaky at best, there was another saying how good it is. And even those that said it couldn't be trusted tended to throw in the caveat that 'it will probably be improved by software updates'. As I pointed out previously, at the point of ordering, it was difficult to be sure where my car was coming from or whether it had missed the cut for USS, so I couldn't say for sure whether it was a problem for me or not.

Another example was the upgraded 'comfort' suspension. From all the reviews (during my deep-dive) I followed it seemed 'likely' that the car I ordered would come with the comfort suspension, but no-one was able to say that for sure. Happily, it did indeed have that upgrade.

Believe me, I deep-dived, then made a decision. But due to the factors I've mentioned (and others) it was impossible to make a fully informed decision. I thought there would be value to others on this forum in knowing how that has worked out for me personally.

Hindsight of course is a wonderful thing and if I knew then what I know now would I have bought it? Probably, but I'd be much more content and would have less grounds for complaining if the clarity was there in the first place and I knew therefore just what I was buying. And none of this rhetoric changes the fact that Tesla Vision continues to be awful. At least until that soft

Your post cuts out at the end.
I presume you were going to say "At least until that soft....release of death finds me"?
Because that is going to happen before they manage to fix the vision on cars with the current version of hardware.

 

[MidBaz]

Your post cuts out at the end.
I presume you were going to say "At least until that soft....release of death finds me"?
Because that is going to happen before they manage to fix the vision on cars with the current version of hardware.

LoL. Last sentence was 'at least until that software update'

 

[Tony Hoyle]

When tesla vision was new people although sceptical generally considered it was something that could be handled in software. I don't think many predicted that autopark and summon would be unavailable a year later. It wasn't unreasonable to buy based on that..

(Of course in 2019 we had it much worse.. the only research we could do was on US forums who were completely uncritical of the car).

 

[Whyone]

How can they fix a dirty rear camera? Are they planning to install the world’s smallest wash wipe?

......

It's a very good question...and one I have put to Tesla Customer Resolutions (TCR) a number of times and they refuse to comment beyond 'we are working on it'.

Whilst I have never been anything other than polite in my communications with TCR, their most recent message to me in August this year basically told me to sod off.

 

[Tony Hoyle]

In theory you could cope with a certain amount of mud using algorithms to reverse the effect.. we see through muddy stuff all the time. But theory is a wonderful place where everything works, not like the real world..

If they were working on that though Elon would have promised it in two weeks already.

 

[MrBadger]

(Of course in 2019 we had it much worse.. the only research we could do was on US forums who were completely uncritical of the car).

And Tesla's own staff regurgitating that nonsense. Most hadn't even got to see the car let alone drive one. At West Drayton, they at least had a LHD Model 3 and I had sat in another one for less than 5 minutes a year or so before. At least we got the returns policy...

I had several quite in depth conversations with a chap at West Drayton when I was finalising spec - I'm sure he was sick of the sight of me...

But he was quite adamant that the car could do things, or would soon do things that to this day, remain functionality of fantasy.

Realising that they had pulled the wool over your eyes was well beyond the returns period...