Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[geometro]

why so much red?

 

[Knightshade]

She can't (but it'll still take a year or more to undo what she's done). Another case was overturned on appeal in the Delaware Supreme Court which ruled that the "entire fairness doctrine**" DOES NOT overrule the Investor franchise. Simply put, the judge isn't allowed to put her view on a contract above Investor's will as expressed in a vote. This is IMPORTANT, so here's more:

• @_SFTahoe tweet| Delaware ruling could be overturned
• Amy on X: "DELAWARE COURTS: “Two seminal state Supreme Court opinions say that under Delaware corporate law, the sanctity of the shareholder franchise tops entire fairness review, Chief Justice Collins Seitz wrote.” “Sanctity of the shareholder franchise” What does this mean??…" /X

• 
  
  
  
  You (and the twitter person you quote) appear to be misunderstanding the source they're citing? Direct link to that source.
  
  
  Loading…

  www.delawarelitigation.com
  
  The case being cited is one where the entire fairness doctrine passed-- and the fact it passed it is why the chancery court refused to reverse the corporate action.
  
  The Delaware supreme court then did reverse the corporate action because the board disenfranchising voters-- even if they do it in a way that passes entire fairness-- isn't legal.
  
  Thus the higher court reversed the actions of the board of directors when the chancery court did not, because only passing entire fairness isn't sufficient to refuse to reverse a board decision. Specifically the supreme court said careful judicial scrutiny will be given [to] a situation in which the right to vote for the election of successor directors has been effectively frustrated and denied by the board
  
  it's saying actions by the board must pass entire fairness and be fair to voting shareholders. Board actions must pass both tests and failing either means the court can reverse what the board did.
  
  In the Tesla case however the chancery found the board action failed entire fairness- and one of the reasons for doing so was not providing a fully informed vote to the shareholders. And thus the chancery judge- just like the case you are citing reversed the actions of the board in granting the pay package.
  
  (You can certainly argue about if the vote really was fully informed- and if Tesla appeals they will surely do so-- but the case you cite is not remotely similar to this one, and the nearest it gets (the not informed vote) works against overturning the decision in light of the case you cite)
  
  
  Another way you can tell the cite isn't saying what you imagine it does? If it were Tesla would've cited it and the case would've ended right there since if it said what you think it did that'd be a controlling precedent.
  
  
  
  

  [*]State Supreme Court overturns judge's ruling prohibiting Tesla dealership in Delaware
  
  [*]Is the Delaware Supreme Court Pushing Back on Chancery’s Suspicion of Non-Competes? | Ballard Spahr LLP

Your other cites make even less sense, the first one is about franchise laws, having nothing to do with shareholder rights-- and didn't even take place in the chancery court system at all....Your second IS a chancery case- but again has nothing to do with shareholder voting-- it's about non-compete clauses for limited partnerships.

Did you cite the wrong things- repeatedly- by accident-- or just hope nobody read the later links?

 

[EVWatcher]

I’d be curious if someone has the time and tools to look back and see how January and February China sales numbers that come out a few days into the next month affect the stock price in correlation to when Chinese new year is.

For example the January sales numbers looked good this year and the stock went up.

But they looked good because last year January had ~33% fewer working days than it did this year.

And February number will probably look awful because Chinese new year start tomorrow-ish (the actual days of holiday vs how much is shut down at the beginning and end of the holiday are more open to discussion) so the stock will probably drop, even though Tesla Shanghai will probably be churning out more cars per day of operation than it did last year.

Walls street probably doesn’t account for this phenomenon in options pricing.

Year	Chinese New Year Start
2024	Feb 10
2023	Jan 22
2022	Feb 1
2021	Feb 12
2020	Jan 25
2019	Feb 5
2018	Feb 16
2017	Jan 28
2016	Feb 8
2015	Feb 19

So, did anyone take this advice that I myself didn’t take and sell Friday before the data came out?

 

[Stormy24]

why so much red?

Sales in China crashed worse than last year. Looks very bad….. but due to it being new year and closed for a week… lol. Nice to move stock about and make money.

 

[larmor]

why so much red?

Monday

 

[NicoV]

Very good numbers for februari again in Belgium:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1764666375958581393

I don’t know where he gets the data because febiac doesn’t seem to have published the numbers yet.

 

[Mengy]

why so much red?

Much of the market is very red today, I don't think it has anything to do with Tesla. It's just Monday.

 

[Tony73]

Don't forget the cost of electricity is coming down. Can synthetic fuel compete against nearly free electricity?

Meanwhile, Tesla will be right in the middle of that as well with multiple Megapacktories producing storage for the worldwide S-curve adoption of sustainable energy.

It already costs less to build new, green power production than it does to maintain existing fossil electricity plants, and they can be brought online in a fraction of the time it takes to build a new fossil fuel generating site.

Bring on these synthetic fuels to compete against electricity and let's see which one takes the prize.

BEVs are not the competition for synthetic fuels. Natural crude oil is. Synthetic fuels are a part of the mission and everyone should root for them. The cheaper they get, the less incentive there is to go after the most expensive and environmentally disruptive oil deposits. If synthetic oil can be produced for $70 a barrel one day, it makes no sense to drill in the arctic or ultra deep offshore.

Electric cars offer a better driving experience and are already at parity in cost. They will only continue to gain share. It is a simply better product . Nothing can reverse the trend on electrification. That ship has sailed.
However oil will be with us for a very long time. The decline in oil consumption will be very slow. That long tail of oil usage is why synthetics are needed to protect the most sensitive environments.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

I blame @SOULPEDL!!!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I think what may have people skeptical is that, while these actions appear to support the mission of moving to sustainability, we've seen time and time again what appears to be lip-service, accompanied by some small (often mandated) token action.

I tend to give organizations the benefit of the doubt, hoping that they are looking to genuinely support the EV effort whole heartedly. And while I'd like for it to be for altruistically wanting to combat climate change, I'll settle for the reality of economic survival forcing their hand.

Hence, I rooted for:

-The EV1
-The Chevy Bolt
-Electrify America
- Countless battery factory plans
-VW ID4
-Ford F-150
-Hyundai Kona
-etc...

...only to be disappointed in some fashion. In some cases I think the manufacturer was genuinely trying to make it work but just couldn't initially(i.e.- Kona), and others seem to be making a good go at it (Kia). But in many cases it feels like once they realized their bluff was being called, they pulled out. Or some somebody (*COUGH*petroleum companies or unions*COUGH*) got to them,

Nonetheless, I still root for/support companies announcing plans to join the fight... I'd rather they realize(even reluctantly) that they can garner customers via good will, than criticize the effort, even if I face more disappointment.

So... are Ford and the group supporting NACS out of the goodness of their heart, or out of desperation to try and be competitive if the landscape continues to change in a manner they'd rather it not?

While I'd hope it's the former, I'll take the latter.

Similarly, Tesla didn't open up NACS out of goodness of their heart.

Ford had a CEO who experienced CCS sucking and realized it was hurting them.
Tesla was staring down the barrel of NEVI and realized it would hurt them a _lot_ to be cut out, so they conceded on the Ford app and the rest will be history.

 

[mongo]

Sales in China crashed worse than last year. Looks very bad….. but due to it being new year and closed for a week… lol. Nice to move stock about and make money.

For comparison:

2023 January (NY 21-27): 26,843 / 66,051
2023 February: 33,923 / 74,402
2023 March: 76,663 / 88,869
140,453 for Jan-Feb

2024 January: 33,981 / 71,447
2024 February (NY 10-17): ??? / 60,365
131,812 for Jan-Feb

6% lower over the two months, but we'll need to see what happens with the first full month after the holiday.

 

[Krugerrand]

You don't know Elon then. Zero chance he folds on this when he feels that he is in the right. It is not in his nature to yield. c.f. Elon throwing a sumo wrestler at the cost of (several) cervical vertebrae.

Elon will make this right, and count the cost later.

Mostly yes, but perhaps no. Depends. He has folded before because it was in Tesla’s/shareholders’ favor.

If fighting doesn’t hurt Tesla and doesn’t hurt ‘us’, he’ll fight like a banshee.

 

[Retailinvestor]

I don't think there should be a revote. I sold a significant portion of my shares since 2018. I don't have the same voting power as I did in 2018.

I remember when the composition package was presented, we here at TMC laughed thinking elon was never going to get paid. I'm serious here. The folks on this form didn't even think Elon was going to turn Tesla into a 750 billion dollar company. Now that Elon has did the impossible some silly judge comes over and overrules the shareholders.

Who cares of Elon is the richest man in the world, as a shareholder I don't care what's fair or not. I'm voting on elon's package on what he did for us.

I thank Tesla motors club and x platform to let our voice be heard and to unite and to fight this.

 

[scaesare]

Similarly, Tesla didn't open up NACS out of goodness of their heart.

Ford had a CEO who experienced CCS sucking and realized it was hurting them.
Tesla was staring down the barrel of NEVI and realized it would hurt them a _lot_ to be cut out, so they conceded on the Ford app and the rest will be history.

Mmmm... Tesla open sourced their patents and allowed fair free licensing a decade ago: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

Elon stated several times he was open to supercharging use by other brands, as long as they shared in the infrastructure support/cost.

Finally, events allowed for a mechanism to make that attractive to the wider market, and they pivoted to encourage it. If it was going to help move the mission forward, would Tesla have done it regardless, even with no profit? All indications are "yes".

 

[GhostSkater]

Consider this my last hands on report on the EV adoption on my region and city here in Brazil, because unless I start keeping track of license plates, there is too many, from the top of my head, at least 10 BYDs, 3 GWM Oras, a handful of GWM Haval PHEV, a few Volvos, at least two comercial BYD vans

Yesterday after a few hours of off-roading I stopped in a tiny 5k pop rural city that is off the beaten path and not along any main road to get something to drink, while I'm enjoying my nice and cold sugarcane juice in the one and only town square, a BYD Seal pull up to do the same

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/account/

 

[MP3Mike]

Similarly, Tesla didn't open up NACS out of goodness of their heart.

Ford had a CEO who experienced CCS sucking and realized it was hurting them.
Tesla was staring down the barrel of NEVI and realized it would hurt them a _lot_ to be cut out, so they conceded on the Ford app and the rest will be history.

Tesla opening the existing Supercharger network to other OEMs has nothing to do with NEVI. (Tesla has received $0 NEVI funds to do this.) And as far as I know there is still not a single NEVI compliant Tesla Supercharger install. (There will be, as Tesla has received NEVI contracts to build sites, but they haven't built one yet.)

 

[mongo]

Fuel absolutely can be carbon neutral, if the CO2 emissions are equal to the CO2 pulled from the atmosphere to create the fuel.
See wood. It’s when carbon is added to the cycle (coal, oil, gas) that trouble starts.

The phrasing may be tricky, but that's what they said: "It could be carbon neutral if carbon capture is used in the process". Their point was even a carbon neutral fuel has emissions: "but otherwise it’s still fuel with exhaust emissions." In response to "I was reading about the development of zero-emissions synthetic fuel"

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Mmmm... Tesla open sourced their patents and allowed fair free licensing a decade ago: https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

Elon stated several times he was open to supercharging use by other brands, as long as they shared in the infrastructure support/cost.

Finally, events allowed for a mechanism to make that attractive to the wider market, and they pivoted to encourage it. If it was going to help move the mission forward, would Tesla have done it regardless, even with no profit? All indications are "yes".

Are other brands now supporting the growth of the network directly?

 

[Krugerrand]

Consider this my last hands on report on the EV adoption on my region and city here in Brazil, because unless I start keeping track of license plates, there is too many, from the top of my head, at least 10 BYDs, 3 GWM Oras, a handful of GWM Haval PHEV, a few Volvos, at least two comercial BYD vans

Yesterday after a few hours of off-roading I stopped in a tiny 5k pop rural city that is off the beaten path and not along any main road to get something to drink, while I'm enjoying my nice and cold sugarcane juice in the one and only town square, a BYD Seal pull up to do the same

View attachment 1024507
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/account/

And I was at my podunk grocery store on the weekend and saw the first ever RT1 in the lot. I didn’t take a picture to prove it, so you’ll just have to take my word for it.

To top off the weekend, driving through town, going 25 because that’s the speed limit and the sheriff’s office is ‘right there’ and he LOVES to ticket peeps, I pulled over at the pizza joint (for pizza, duh) and the lifted diesel dually that had been following me too closely through town, tried to coal roll me as it sped past. Unfortunately, he just didn’t have enough oomf from 25 to 28mph to do anything more than rev his engine to an obnoxious volume and spit out a puff. I may have gotten out of my Tesla and flipped him the bird. Tesla, if you could please hurry up building my CT that’d be great.

 

[scaesare]

Are other brands now supporting the growth of the network directly?

Not aware of any... which likely is part of the need to pivot...