Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Singuy]

So first time ever Tesla's cash on hand supercede their debt? Come on Moody's!

 

[Hock1]

All this BS over imaginary conspiracies to deprive shareholders of their rightful bounty. When somebody actually loses anything of value, rather than just having complaints over not seeing the right numbers on the screen, then it's time to complain. Until then, this is just stupidity. Count your damn winnings and stop bellyaching.

And yes, it's pathetic that the brokers can't get things right. But it's not evil, not without hard evidence.

If the "hard evidence" were available, this travesty wouldn't be happening.

 

[ammulder]

I'm afraid you fail to grasp the theory that has been presented. Nobody is trying to take anyone's shares but you can't deliver shares you don't have. That would explain the unusual delay. The inability to deliver the shares is evidence of a large number of floated shares, with no underlying shares to back them up. They would need to purchased on the open market which would add the kind of delays we are seeing and cause the price to rise. It is effectively increasing the number of buyers without any increase in the number of sellers. I've never seen such widespread inability to account for the shares. Did you know every share/block of shares has a unique identity? This is not rocket science. They had all last week to accomplish this.

That last is exactly why I find the "all delays caused by naked shorts" theory confusing. Whoever had a large stable of naked short shares must have known it, and had more than a week to tally up how many shares they were, uh, short, and buy them on the open market. Why wait until after the split takes effect and they can't distribute (the missing) shares properly? Wouldn't that just be drawing a big red arrow to themselves saying "hey everyone, WE have a naked short problem!" Why risk that exposure instead of just biting the bullet and buying however many shares were needed before the 31st, so everything looked smooth upon distribution and nobody investigated?

It seems like the naked short theory is alleging even greater incompetence than the "it was all caused by incompetence" theory.

 

[MABMAB]

We will designate the maximum amount of common stock to be sold through the sales agents on a daily basis or otherwise as we and the sales agents agree and the minimum price per share at which such common stock may be sold.

 

[MABMAB]

This offering is an "At The Market" offering, meaning that the banks running this will be selling shares, for Tesla, in the market "from time to time" until they have raised 5B$. There is no specific offering price.

The banks are being paid 0.5% for this service.

YES THERE IS OR COULD BE A SPECIFIED PRICE, read the info from tesla

 

[luckyruby]

Another 5B of liquidity for Tesla
Where are they gonna produce that new Gigafactory?

I'd like to see one in India. Large population, high pollution, high import duty on vehicles, skilled workforce.

 

[Mike Smith]

Strange that the market didn't immediately recognize that this is obviously being timed to coincide with S&P inclusion. Should trade much, much higher today as everyone comes to realize this.

 

[Hock1]

So what can be done about these brokers not delivering dividends to the shareholders?
First, I assume that my shares have been loaned out to short sellers, even though it was confirmed that they were segregated.
Something definitely needs to be done about this.

No kidding! Apparently, the only way something will be done is through more and more investors realizing and acknowledging its existence, and be outraged by it. For all those who think it is a wild conspiracy, let's get into the basics of naked short selling and its ramifications in detail, say this weekend. Instead of cluttering the board this week, with so much going on.

 

[LN1_Casey]

Strange that the market didn't immediately recognize that this is obviously being timed to coincide with S&P inclusion. Should trade much, much higher today as everyone comes to realize this.

Shush! I'm hoping my $540 call won't get ITM this week. [clears throat, and raises voice] Next week everyone! S&P 500 next week.

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

We will designate the maximum amount of common stock to be sold through the sales agents on a daily basis or otherwise as we and the sales agents agree and the minimum price per share at which such common stock may be sold.

It sounds as if they will only start selling these shares when there is a large need for them, which is right after the S&P 500 announcement.

 

[mongo]

YES THERE IS OR COULD BE A SPECIFIED PRICE, read the info from tesla

Minimum price != specified price.
Examples:
Specified: 10 million shares at $500. Fixed price.
Market limit: 10 million, or portion thereof, at no less than $500.

 

[Artful Dodger]

this part is technically not correct;

while individual holders may have received the credit of shares in their accounts from their broker, no broker anywhere has received the split shares yet from the issuer - it hasn’t allocated

the issuer delivers the shares to dtcc, and dtcc credits its participants (banks, brokers, etc etc)
as of now, the anticipated allocation date is tomorrow.

This is how Tesla describes the share dividend rollout in their latest SEC filling: (Sep 01)

Inline XBRL Viewer

"Stock Dividend Adjustments

"On August 10, 2020, the board of directors of Tesla declared a five-for-one forward split of its Common Stock in the form of a stock dividend to stockholders of record on August 21, 2020 (the “Stock Dividend”). The Stock Dividend was distributed after close of trading on August 28, 2020, and trading began on a stock split-adjusted basis on August 31, 2020. As of August 28, 2020, there were approximately 933,540,135 shares of Common Stock outstanding."​

Absent other sources, I'm not seeing a lot of nuance here. I have my shares, and I could sell all of them if I wanted to, as of Market Open yesterday, Aug 28th as Tesla describes.

The point is other beneficial owners DO NOT have their shares, and have only vague promises that they will receive them at an indeterminant future date.

Point to any other event in the past where this has happened during a stock dividend, then there may be useful context. Again, absent that, this is unprecented.

 

[anthonyj]

It sounds as if they will only start selling these shares when there is a large need for them, which is right after the S&P 500 announcement.

Pretty much this. Tesla doesn’t really need the cash, but it’s nice to have. Pretty obvious that the S&P knows that the index funds won’t be able to accumulate enough chairs at a stable price

 

[Unpilot]

well, we do have the saying:

"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by pure incompetence."


But this do smell kinda funky..

I think that needs to be changed due to Wall street greed: "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by pure unlimited- face sucking- life bleeding-soul destroying-greed"

 

[OrthoSurg]

It sounds as if they will only start selling these shares when there is a large need for them, which is right after the S&P 500 announcement.

The current road had only one exit: S&P 500 inclusion announcement and Tesla just made a clear sign it’s within couple hundred ft

 

[vikings123]

$20 drop in premarket exactly when you posted this. Is this really seen as a negative by the market or just another fud attempt?

It was the same reaction back in February. Down in premarket but closed with a 8% gain for the day.

 

[Artful Dodger]

So are we looking at dilution? Like new shares comprise the $5B? Trying to determine what that means for today's moves.

Yep, 9.5M new shares is less than a 1% dilution. Premarket instantly reacts w. -$20/share or about -4%.

Sounds legit.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Just noticed that although the total of my shares at Merrill (BoA) is correct, I cannot correctly specify (pre-split) lots to sell. The pre-split lots are still at the original purchase size.

The neat thing is that I was tempted to sell a few, but couldn't do what I wanted. I was tempted to do the dirty need (sell), but was prevented by the invisible hand of a higher power. Hallelujah!

HODL-on, my friends, HODL-on.

That’s what I’m seeing with three of my lots over in E*Trade. It also turned out these three had wash sale implications. I let E*Trade know aboutit, we’ll see what happens.

 

[Christine69420]

So doesn't this mean that the cat is pretty much out of the S&P 500 bag? So is there any point in delaying the formal announcement any longer? Like until next week some time? Why not do it already?

 

[TheTalkingMule]

$5B? Shocked the board agreed to such a puny total. I refuse to believe there are innovation or supply bottlenecks that can't be cleared by throwing money at them.