Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Mad@gascar]

...


Investopedia and Wikipedia are not particularly good sources when it comes to market mechanics.

The uptick rule is public and unambiguous:

Press Release: SEC Approves Short Selling Restrictions; 2010-26; Feb. 24, 2010

"At that point, short selling would be permitted if the price of the security is above the current national best bid."​

Btw., trade execution/matching software generally has very little notion of "last price" or "transaction", almost all functionality is based on the order book state - where bid/ask are the top entries of the order book.

Fact Checking's facts check out, after all! Thanks for the fact checking, Fact Checking!

 

[BornToFly]

Btw., the top capital gains tax rates by Biden and Warren simply match the top income tax rate - it makes sense to tax the two in a similar fashion, and many European counties are doing that.

I disagree. For most of us, capital gains are on invested money that has already been taxed. The crooks in Washington just want to milk us dry again so they can buy more votes from their base.

 

[Fact Checking]

Wait, I thought OASDI (SS Tax) was currently 12.4%?

It's capped at around ~$16k with $132k max taxable earnings. It only affects the middle class and lower income classes materially.

 

[S3XY]

Dagnabbit, people! Haven't you learnt of Zaxxon's law of TMC 'never [low price X] again'? Mentioning this thing ensures that it WILL happen. Stop it!

On a totally unrelated note, I'm loving $650 being our 'may never see that bargain-basement price again' number.

LOL. Got my last shares at 649.99 last week.

 

[hacer]

I am not sure where you get this info from. (Hopefully not "the dictionary".) According to my extensive research (i.e., 2 minutes of googling), the "uptick rule" means:

A short sale has to occur at a price that is either

• above the previous transaction, or
• at the same price as the previous transaction, if the last price movement was upwards.

In particular, it has nothing to do with the current bid or ask prices, nor with the spread. Sources:

Wikipedia
Investopedia

Just fact checking Fact Checking.

Except both of those are wrong! The uptick rule come from the law:
17 CFR § 242.201 - Circuit breaker.

which specifically says that short selling must be done by entering a sell order above the national best bid. i.e. a limit sell on the ask which does not cross the market. It can be lower than the best national ask and certainly lower than the last sale price so long as it is higher than the best national bid at the time the order is placed.

 

[Fact Checking]

I disagree. For most of us, capital gains are on invested money that has already been taxed. The crooks in Washington just want to milk us dry again so they can buy more votes from their base.

It's taxation of capital gains, not on the invested sums - i.e. new income and not double taxation.

I'd support no taxation of gains up to the long term inflation rate.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

If this is accurate, all the Democrats should freak out Wall Street. Those Capital gains tax rates are insane....
View attachment 517751

Yikes, might have to sell and rebuy my TSLA shares to reset the cost basis before that happens.

 

[Open Interest]

I disagree. For most of us, capital gains are on invested money that has already been taxed. The crooks in Washington just want to milk us dry again so they can buy more votes from their base.

Disagree because only gains are taxed

 

[mickificki]

Disagree because only gains are taxed

so what? did the government take the risk of investment with my after tax money initially? of course not. I did, and for that they should stay out of my pockets.

 

[StealthP3D]

Slight OT, but thought people may be interested in a 1st hand report.

Upgrade was smooth and uneventful. They said "overnight" - but it took them 4 days. But the service was so backed up, it took them 3 days to even take my car in for service (and dropping off the car on appointment date). They gave me $100 / day Uber codes. If I had used it all - would have cost them $400 just in that.

You have to assume Tesla is able to buy $100/day Uber codes at perhaps $25-$40. Uber knows they are time-sensitive (each code can be used on only one day and will be forfeited if not used within the valid period). It could also be that Tesla only pays for the utilized fares (and at a discount at that). The $100 cap is there to keep it from being abused.

 

[Fact Checking]

so what? did the government take the risk of investment with my after tax money initially? of course not. I did, and for that they should stay out of my pockets.

If you lose money on investments, you typically won't be liable for taxes - so yes, risk taking does get incentivized. Only gains are taxed, and in progressive tax brackets. (You can also carry losses forward, which too incentivizes risk taking over fixed income generation.)

Contrast this with a 30% flat tax on revenue in Apple-land, which you have to pay to Apple even if your app is unprofitable.

The right to earn money on the very lucrative U.S. market is taxed very favorably compared to the right to earn money on the Apple market.

The "U.S. government" in this case is simply the representative agent of the owner-shareholders of the U.S. market. Owner-shareholders are all U.S. citizens, who each got a single non-transferrable voting share at birth, and who can change the tax system with a majority vote.

Why shouldn't shareholders have the right to ask for fair fees and profit sharing to access a very lucrative market they own? In fact your anti-taxation argument is weirdly anti-capitalist and communistic...

 

[Tim S]

Wait, I thought OASDI (SS Tax) was currently 12.4%?

It's 6.2%. That table is not accurate.

Contribution and Benefit Base

 

[KSilver2000]

It's 6.2%. That table is not accurate.

You guys are both right and wrong.
It’s 6.2% employee responsibility and 6.2% employer responsibility. If you’re self-employed, you owe both portions. So, it’s 12.4%.

 

[AudubonB]

MODERATOR WARNING:

THE VERY NEXT SET OF POSTS THAT ADDRESS THE POLITICAL SPHERE WITHOUT ABSOLUTELY TOEING THE LINE WITH REGARDS TO REFERRING SPECIFICALLY TO TESLA AND TSLA WILL NOT ONLY BE DELETED, BUT ITS POSTER AND THE POSTERS OF ANY REFERENCE TO IT WILL BE SUBJECTED TO A MINIMUM TEN-DAY VACATION.

 

[StealthP3D]

Id like to see dark green for three months, chocolate brown for three months, amethyst and copper for three months. Maybe let people vote on twitter to choose one of three colors for a month or two.

That would cause a huge increase in the number of parts that needed to be stocked to repair damaged cars.

Not gonna happen. If you want a unique color, get a wrap!

 

[Buckminster]

My guess on key dates:

Elon gets creative on April fools day - 1st April
Production & Deliveries numbers - 3rd April
Announce batt day - 6th April
Batt day - 20th April (420 day)
Announce ER - 24th April
ER - 6th May
Moody and S&P upgrades - 22nd May

 

[LN1_Casey]

That would cause a huge increase in the number of parts that needed to be stocked to repair damaged cars.

Not gonna happen. If you want a unique color, get a wrap!

While I agree with the truly unique colors, such as purple, pink, and turquoise, more common uncommon colors such as "titanium" (also known as champagne, gold, moonstone, etc.), bright silver, ivory, etc are more common in the luxury market, of which the S and X is a part of. I don't see the Model 3 or Y gaining color choices, but the Model S and X are both being more and more representative of the upper middle class than their younger siblings. It would make sense to offer "premium" color choices of those vehicles, so to better align with their premium price tag, especially as we transition from "frantic, need-to-grow-to-survive" to "grow because we can".

Tesla has even previously offered green, brown, titanium, and bright silver, so it's not a pumpkin orange that very few would order.

 

[LN1_Casey]

My guess on key dates:

Elon gets creative on April fools day - 1st April
Production & Deliveries numbers - 3rd April
Announce batt day - 6th April
Batt day - 20th April (420 day)
Announce ER - 24th April
ER - 5th May (Cinco de Mayo/Taco Tuesday)
Moody and S&P upgrades - 22nd May

FTFY.

 

[Thora]

I got my Interactive Broker account set up--but man, do I hate the two step verification every time I log in. So far, I've not found a way to turn this off. I was going to shift my shares from E*trade to IB, due to Morgan-Stanley buying E*trade, but not if I have to get a stupid SMS message every time I want to check my stocks. You know how often I obsessively check those things?

Is there a decent brokerage out here who doesn't require two-step verification every time you log in?

(Robinhood is off the table because 1) I don't know if it's come up since yesterday still, and 2) they don't accept stock transfers, so it defeats the purpose of taking my TSLA out of E*trade and away from Morgan-Stanley).

Face recognition can be a verification step. Logging into IB on iphone is seamless and fast, verification is done if your phone is seeing your face.

There are many apps and websites that show stock prices with no log in requirements.

 

[RobStark]

That would cause a huge increase in the number of parts that needed to be stocked to repair damaged cars.

Not gonna happen. If you want a unique color, get a wrap!

Parts are not stored painted.

Each batch of cars of the same color are a slightly different shade.

Cars in the sun fade.

Every time a new part is installed on a car it must be color matched and custom painted for that particular car.

Adding colors adds complexity to the paint booth but does nothing for adding complexity for storing parts.

Since Q1 is seasonally the lowest demand I would like to see a rotating 6th color every Q1 to boost demand.

Telling people to get a $3k-$6k wrap is like telling customers to go get a BMW or Porsche. Some will take you up on the suggestion.