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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I took a trip down memory lane for you all, and re-read Spiegel's late 2016 'presentation.' It's aged really well. Below, I've listed the predictions/comparisons that were to happen by now. I've left out any 'competition' he listed that wasn't due to be out by now.

-Pricing pressure on Tesla from competing EVs over the next few years (aka through about today) will be intense because those manufacturers can subsidize their EVs with profits from their ICE cars.

-The new Bolt compares to the size of the S but $30k cheaper than the cheapest Tesla and with more range.

-Audi Q6 coming 2018 with 300+ miles range.

-VW's new electric car will cost less than and go farther than the Model 3.

-Jaguar unveils all-electric i-Pace, targets Model X.

-Nissan confirms next Leaf will have 200+ miles of range.

-200-mile Hyundai Ioniq coming 2018.

-Honda will re-enter the electric race in 2017

-Mazda CEO says electric cars coming 2019

-Toyota may mass-produce long-range electric cars.

-New 2017 Renault Zoe with 41 kWh battery

-PSA promise 280-mi EV in 2019

-Lucid launches 300-mi EV

-2017 Karma Revero revealed

-Dyson EV looks more likely than ever

-Tesla is playing catch-up with BYD in nearly every category

Next, he lists a bunch of battery 'competition' after a bullet list of why Tesla's batteries are really Panasonic's, and they're not special, anyway. I won't detail these as there's no point. Battery supply and quality are reflected in the vehicles made by Tesla and others, so when battery advancements by others matter, we'll see it in vehicle sales.

Next, a bunch of press releases about how much battery storage competition is coming. Again, not gonna detail it other than to say that no competitor seems to have nuked Tesla's energy storage deployments.

Next, the bogeymen come for Autopilot:

-Audi to have first fully-autonomous car in 2017.

-GM/Lyft to make autonomous taxis available in early 2019.

Next, up come 120 kW Superchargers and their competition:

-Giant joint-venture 350 kW network coming in Europe.

-Electrify America network coming to the US.

(Both of these networks combined wound up paling in comparison to the Supercharger network, which itself improved drastically in these intervening 3 years both in availability and charge speed)

Next: But what about the $35k 3? Spiegel estimates that the base 3 will cost Tesla *at least* (his words) high $40,000s to make. (Note: nope!)

Then he rags on Tesla service delays. Congrats, Mark! Your random dart-throwing hit something of merit! Here's a cookie!

Finally, he goes on a tirade of headlines knocking Musk for being lame. Including Seeking Alpha articles by Montana Skeptic and Paulo Santos.

Meanwhile, a short summary from me of Tesla's accomplishments in the intervening 3 years:
-4461 Superchargers then to 14,400 now, more than tripling. Also increased power considerably.
-GAAP revenue 2.3B then to 6.3B now.
-25k deliveries then, 97k now.
-550M opex then, 930M now (< 2x, with 4x sales).
-Then: Tesla faced a very difficult bet-the-company ramp of the 3 and the tall task of integrating SolarCity. Now: the 3 basically took over the world. Tesla has a shiny new factory in China about to start production, greatly improving competitiveness in the world's largest car market. The Y is right around the corner. Solar Roof is finally here. Retrofit PV and Tesla Energy storage is finally ramping. The company is far more cost-efficient. And there are about $5.3B in the bank.

This presentation is fairly representative of the quality of analysis put forth by the TSLAQ crowd--hanging on the most charitable possible expectation of every EV-related development from anyone and everyone not named Tesla/Musk, while completely discounting everything Tesla/Musk say or do. This presentation long pre-dated the Twitter block list, but boy--looking at how absolutely terribly off the mark the entirety of Spiegel's presentation was, should we be surprised that the whole cabal resorted to sticking fingers in ears and hiding under the blanket?

It's somewhat remarkable that Spiegel and the rest of their crew refer to happy Tesla customers and investors as 'Teslemmings,' when the quality of analysis and social demeanor of the TSLAQ crew are objectively far closer to those of a lemming.

Keep these results in mind going forward. If we should be so lucky over the next three years as to have Tesla execute half as successfully while Spiegel's predictions are twice as accurate, we're in for a fun time.

Who's selling?
 
With the logistics nightmare experienced during this past Q1, Tesla will not be down in Q1 2020 vs Q1 2019. Also - I am not sure that you are correct that Tesla is prioritizing US this quarter...I seem to recall that there were more ships heading out to Europe at this time vs the same time last quarter (maybe someone can confirm the ship count).
I believe the end of quarter fire drills have stopped at Tesla and we will see quite a bit of Q4 demand pushed to Q1 2020. This along with GF3 deliveries in China should make Q1 2020 much better than Q1 2019.

Doesn't the U.S. tax incentive expire for Tesla Q4?

I wasn't expecting to be down Q1 compared to 2019. Just possibly down compared to Q4.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: The Accountant
Stopped by the open house at the Bloomington Il service center. Great group of people had fun.

Then we drove by the Rivian factory in Bloomington...I know it was a Saturday...but it was a ghost town.
Rivian.jpg
Rivian1.jpg
Rivian2.jpg
 
Meanwhile, a short summary from me of Tesla's accomplishments in the intervening 3 years:
-4461 Superchargers then to 14,400 now, more than tripling. Also increased power considerably.
-GAAP revenue 2.3B then to 6.3B now.
-25k deliveries then, 97k now.
-550M opex then, 930M now (< 2x, with 4x sales).
-Then: Tesla faced a very difficult bet-the-company ramp of the 3 and the tall task of integrating SolarCity. Now: the 3 basically took over the world. Tesla has a shiny new factory in China about to start production, greatly improving competitiveness in the world's largest car market. The Y is right around the corner. Solar Roof is finally here. Retrofit PV and Tesla Energy storage is finally ramping. The company is far more cost-efficient. And there are about $5.3B in the bank.

Note that there's one metric of Tesla that was lagging this year: in 2016 TSLA peaked around $270 - which was higher than the pre-Q3 price levels of $250-$260 ...
 
I've been reading this Investorpedia article and would like to give a real-life example, as I understand it, of margin requirements for maintaining a short position.
* There are both initial and maintenance margin requirements for short-sales.
* Typically initial margin requirements are for 150% of the short sale at time of initiation and
* Maintenance requirements are for the current market value of the short sale, along with at least 25% of the total market securities in the margin account. Sometimes the brokerage will increase this 25% additional amount if the stock is particularly volatile.Here's the computations that Investorpedia uses as an example, with margin requirement at 30%:
View attachment 470317
Now, let's use an example that reflects what is happening with TSLA (with 30% margin requirement initially)
View attachment 470316
In the above example, the short entered a position of 1,000 shares when TSLA was trading at $200, and the brokerage required a 30% maintenance margin. You can see that once TSLA climbs above $300, the margin calls start getting expensive. Now consider if the brokerage houses get worried with TSLA heading higher, quickly, and they want to get marginal players out of this short. If the brokerage raises the margin requirement for TSLA to 45% as it passes through $350, the total Margin Requirement would be $507,500 and the margin call would be for $207,500. At some point the game becomes too pricey for an average player to afford and they are forced out.

One of the great mystery is that neither before nor after the ER did I hear about margin maintenance increase. Not that I've checked, but I usually read this in some news so I am just assuming they haven't raised.
 
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Reactions: capster
Today Elon Musk called out wsj reporter Charley Grant for potential ties to Jim Chanos.

Everyone who tracks Tesla closely knows the history of Charley and his negative narrative on TSLA. What was interesting to see if there was some truth to being linked to Jim Chanos and serving as his mouthpiece to the financial community.

Let’s go down the rabbit hole....

——

Check out this article:
How Jim Chanos Uses Cynicism, Chutzpah — and a Secret Twitter Account — to Take on Markets (and Elon Musk)

Chanos can appear world-weary and somewhat guarded — but, as the saying goes, in every cynic beats the bleeding heart of an idealist. “There’s more than a little of the crusader in him,” says longtime friend Jim Grant, founder and editor of Grant’s Interest Rate Observer. “He would like to clean up Wall Street. He would like to improve the quality of corporate reporting. He would like to rid Wall Street of the scoundrels and clean up corporate management.”

Charley’s Dad’s BFF - a little sloppy quote they probably regret

——
Jim Chanos has been short other very specific stocks:

—-
Caterpillar

Charley writes about it - helps out
Why Caterpillar Rolled Over

——

Valeant

No way - guess whose back caddying for Mr chanos on the back nine:
Valeant assets good, but debt burden an issue: Grant

——-
Jimbo shorts Mallinckrodt

Charley lends a hand
These Drug Companies Are Too Frail to Cure

——-

Jim calls out Uber
Legendary short vendor Jim Chanos: Uber and Lyft went public because they’d to, now not because they wished to – BrowseDesk

Charley calls out Uber and Jim responds via Twitter handle
Charley Grant on Twitter


Could go on and on...
An update. WSJ Journalist Charley Grant is on tilt and isn’t hiding his affiliation with Chanos as much anymore.
F0F654F8-2452-4DBF-8C48-A2BC2B8D6DA6.png
 
Note ...
The plan is contingent on Democrats winning the Senate in 2020.​

Want something that's not contingent on Democrats winning in 2020 that has a major impact on a certain new product launch? :)

California Gives Final OK To Require Solar Panels On New Houses

Starting in 2020, all new homes in California will be required to have solar (and discounts will be given on home batteries, e.g. powerwalls), barring certain exceptions (for example, homes in shady locations). Think about what impacts this will have on solar roof orders :)

Tesla Energy is going to see monstrous growth next year.
 
Why? Serious question.

When in this current 10+ year journey was their opinion helpful to ‘investors’?

Their opinions certainly didn’t help me get a 10-bagger nor to help me continue to accumulate even more over time. Indeed, I held like an addict with their last fix in hand despite their roof top shouts of vaporware, fraud, bankruptcy et al.
What do you think: Are we turning a page with regards to TSLA here? If we go back to the old thread: Elon Musk vs. Short sellers

The key point behind the relentless attacks on Tesla was to induce a crisis of confidence that will prevent people from buying the actual Tesla products and thus drive them out of business (also ref. the Fairfax example).

Can you help me pierce my bubble? If Tesla even on a "decline" in turnover manages to squeeze out a profit, if their expansion right now is clearly not soaking up all the cash available to Tesla - is this attack vector on TSLA futile? And will we see a significant portion of the short position go away now?

Every day more Tesla cars are flooding the markets. And sales cause sales (we all know this) - so all the FUD in the media is getting less and less effective if a) your neighbour tells you the car is awesome and b) the company shows pretty decent financials.

Now if the shorts were to fold: could we expect a short covering rally? (Not a squeeze, I don't believe in that). What's your take?
Traders have been on the short side of Tesla. That trade looks to be over. Not only will shorts be forced to cover but momentum traders will jump into the stock. The same guys that have been bashing TSLA will be praising it. Without reliable estimates of future cash flows it's impossible to estimate current value. Without some kind of benchmarking share prices can really fly. Tulip type mania has to be considered a possibility in TSLA shares.
 
An update. WSJ Journalist Charley Grant is on tilt and isn’t hiding his affiliation with Chanos as much anymore.
View attachment 470327

Charley is spreading false information that may impact the SP of a stock...I wonder how his employer (WSJ) can tolerate this.
Solarcity asked vendors to extend payment terms. Extending payment terms has no impact on COGS and does not impact the income statement. For Solarcity, it was to keep invoices longer in accounts payable and not to deplete cash. So for Charley to retweet a comment that COGS and the P&L are impacted makes him a party to the spreading of false news to impact the stock price of Tesla.
 
The $10 "bearish scenario" was an unprecedented, unnecessary and irresponsible act of concern trolling by Adam Jonas, which he knew would be highlighted by the media...

Note how Jonas never voiced such a "bearish scenario" for GM, which he rated a "strong buy" in the summer - while GM actually went bankrupt a short 10 years ago...

So I'm not buying that excuse.

I think at that time, Jonas gave out the "$10" target to help break down TSLA stock. He specifically said Apple and Amazon would not be interested to buy Tesla. We all know that's a lie. Why did he make that lie? I think he wanted to push TSLA below $180. There was a good chance for sharp drop once TSLA breaks below the major support level.

Lots of investors knew TSLA has a hard bottom, so they keep adding, they knew downside was safe, worst case Tesla could be sold to Apple etc. Jonas specifically removed that safety assumption, so he could help break down the stock, then stop loss orders plus shorts would overwhelm the buyers.

Crime scenes have fingerprints and footprints. When he said "don't expect Apple and Amazon to buy Tesla, nobody is interested to own this kind of risky companies that the cars can catch fire and burn down buildings." I think this statement is his fingerprints in the crime scene.

I may never find out why he did that. Maybe there were some customers wanted that favor. Maybe MS bought Puts a few months before the drop, and they needed a big push to maximize profit and switch to long. We do know MS increased TSLA share position in that quarter. We may never know what they did on Option side.

Right now he predicts Tesla will sell 170k EVs in China in 2030. That's a lie too. Watch him changing this prediction to 3 million at a later point. I guess they will first get position right, then update views. I could be wrong, but a lot of profit is involved. Honesty and integrity is extremely rare on Wall Street.