Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Discoducky]

This is cryptic.

What does EPAS stand for please? Presumably something to do with steer-by-wire.

Which spatial needs are less substantial than what?

Has the critical safety code to do with some electronic control unit (ECU), the neural net driving, or something in between?

Sorry, typing on phone during vacation means I'm not verbose.

Electronic Power Assist Steering = EPAS

The current model understands spatial needs of ego (vehicle with FSD actuation) and all static and dynamic scene elements. This is largely new I gather as we've seen close curbing on occasion.

Critical safety code in EPAS is needed to ensure there are limits to what the FSD controls can tell the EPAS to do in every speed, acceleration and jerk scenario so that vehicle dynamics keep the vehicle stabilized. For instance, if FSD sent an explicit command to EPAS turn right 90 degrees while travelling 70 mph, that command would be ignored, module would go into an untrusted state and human would be asked to takeover. Things like that.

 

[unk45]

Tesla disrupting Waze now, one more to add to the list, specially if they provide traffic data for others, way more accurately

FWIW, Waze and Google Maps differ by origin (Waze started in Israel) but have modest differences in practice:

Waze Data Feed specifications - Waze Partners Help

Revision History The following revision table presents the changes made for each version of this document. Revision Date

support.google.com

Combining and Visualizing Multiple Data Sources | Maps JavaScript API | Google for Developers

developers.google.com

They are NOT identical, although why, since they are in the same company, is odd.
In actual routing, the primary issue here Waze seems to have slightly more rapid routing data while Google Maps, in some places, tends to have slightly faster traffic updates.
Waze also has pride of place in many corporate-level routing applications.

Tesla is perfectly fine in areas with sufficiently dense Tesla concentrations but less so as Tesla density decreases.

This perspective is not mine but comes from a friend who has worked on proprietary mapping solutions for vehicle fleets for some years. He also has used and tested numerous other proprietary mapping software and hardware choices, but that is off-topic here.

As we consider the prospects for Tesla Robotaxi and the 'last mile/km problem' my friend informs me that such problems are routinely solved for local delivery and service vehicles almost globally. That, according to him, includes generally unmapped but documented places mentioned earlier in one of my posts. His claim is that for things such as Robotic delivery each location is explicitly mapped and is updated with each use of the location, giving nearly 100% coverage of actual usage patterns. Hence, for hospital supply, for example, each specific delivery point in a large medical complex is individually mapped with access rotes and operating times/access data.

After looking at that and thinking, it seems to me that since Robotaxi will always tend to operate in specific geographic areas, it is with 'present data availability' to precisely map nearly all pickup/dropoff points. The only constraint is that such data tends to reside with express delivery companies and, in many cities, local taxi/rideshare data that is guarded diligently.

it seems to me that the FSD advances are crucial, but the localized data bases are almost equally important.

 

[unk45]

Would definitely avoid osborning existing Models.. And could also be used for last mile parcel deliveries. Like the idea.

Still, the opportunity to retrofit existing models should also offer cost-effective expansion.
The more Robotaxi types available the better the odds of scale efficiency.
The first ones will ideally be a small car and a van, as many observe. The form factors are an interesting question.
How about replicating compact exterior with expansive interior such as these:

LEVC | Across The UK | London Electric Vehicle Company

Visit London Electric Vehicle Company in Across The UK, established dealership and servicing specialist. Explore the website and browse through our full range of offers.

www.levc.com

With Tesla design addressing these interior capabilities the prices will be much lower and market adaptability probably higher. It would be surprising were Tesla not to have considered these models while designing robotaxi.

 

[2daMoon]

Maybe the Robotaxi is the van not the M2. You heard it here first.

First thing that came to mind for me when the unveil was, um, unveiled, is a Push-me Pull-you vehicle (no defined front or back) with sliding doors and bench seating around the perimeter of the interior.

Built to accommodate all classes of riders (individuals, wheelchair, cargo, luggage, etc.).

It would be perfect for deployment in the Boring tunnel system as well as for surface streets in an urban/suburban areas as a shuttle on a campus, and between mass transit and local destinations, local shopping trips, taking children to school, etc.

Not really for highway use due to aerodynamics, but could do that too in a pinch.

 

[RubberToe]

Story today on the NYT Daily Podcast is about Tesla: How Tesla Planted the Seeds for Its Own Potential Downfall.

Specifically, how the China factory paved the way for Tesla profitability. Summary is that Tesla wanted China to adopt the same sort of EV credits that worked in California. States these brought $4 billion to Tesla. China implemented this, and their own companies (BYD) were also incentivized to produce EVs, which they did. China brought in Tesla to force their own EV companies to up their game. Getting people into their first car, hopefully a Chinese EV. No license plate fees, etc. Industrial policy decision to leapfrog over the ICE phase, and build the industrial base. Tesla spurred the suppliers (CATL) to support mass EV production. CATL now biggest battery maker in the world. BYD is now the biggest EV manufacturer in the world, leveraging some of the same suppliers. BYD selling in Germany, much cheaper than Tesla. In old interview, Elon said that BYD didn't have a compelling product. Many early Tesla employees now work for Chinese companies. BYD Seagull is $10,000, Model 3/Y sell for twice that. BYD is vertically integrated, owns the battery maker, the mines, and the ships that move their cars, no middle men. Q4-2023 they outsold Tesla. Europe worried about China lead on EV production. Elon now realizes that BYD is a viable player that could demolish other companies. China is becoming a leader in technology in some areas. Does China own the future of EVs? US has 25% tariffs on China EVs, EU could also add more tariffs. China is an economic and security rival, and Tesla is in the middle of it. Is BYDs rise ultimately a good thing for the world given the big shift to EVs in China. Several mentions of horrible air quality in recent years. China making EV transition easier.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/podcasts/the-daily/tesla-china-ev.html

 

[2daMoon]

Story today on the NYT Daily Podcast is about Tesla: How Tesla Planted the Seeds for Its Own Potential Downfall.

Specifically, how the China factory paved the way for Tesla profitability. Summary is that Tesla wanted China to adopt the same sort of EV credits that worked in California. States these brought $4 billion to Tesla. China implemented this, and their own companies (BYD) were also incentivized to produce EVs, which they did. China brought in Tesla to force their own EV companies to up their game. Getting people into their first car, hopefully a Chinese EV. No license plate fees, etc. Industrial policy decision to leapfrog over the ICE phase, and build the industrial base. Tesla spurred the suppliers (CATL) to support mass EV production. CATL now biggest battery maker in the world. BYD is now the biggest EV manufacturer in the world, leveraging some of the same suppliers. BYD selling in Germany, much cheaper than Tesla. In old interview, Elon said that BYD didn't have a compelling product. Many early Tesla employees now work for Chinese companies. BYD Seagull is $10,000, Model 3/Y sell for twice that. BYD is vertically integrated, owns the battery maker, the mines, and the ships that move their cars, no middle men. Q4-2023 they outsold Tesla. Europe worried about China lead on EV production. Elon now realizes that BYD is a viable player that could demolish other companies. China is becoming a leader in technology in some areas. Does China own the future of EVs? US has 25% tariffs on China EVs, EU could also add more tariffs. China is an economic and security rival, and Tesla is in the middle of it. Is BYDs rise ultimately a good thing for the world given the big shift to EVs in China. Several mentions of horrible air quality in recent years. China making EV transition easier.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/podcasts/the-daily/tesla-china-ev.html

An example of the Stab and Twist method of journalism.

Take a stab at using some facts, then twist the information to support a narrative that isn't actually supported by the facts.

 

[EVMeister]

Story today on the NYT Daily Podcast is about Tesla

Could've just stopped there.

 

[Skryll]

[...] auto inventory/sales ratio, while it's recovered some from the sharp drop in 2021, it's still way below pre-pandemic level. OEMs are still stuffing the dealers.

If they were stuffing the dealers inventory would go up or doesn't that count in that statistic ? Inventory/sales would only drop if sales go up ?

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Not that it matters at all but:

 

[elasalle]

Gary trimmed, so take that into account - on his talking points

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777642816614584652

Folks want to time the next entry, but Elon threw a FSD curveball ...

 

[Ellec]

Gary trimmed, so take that into account - on his talking points

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777642816614584652

Folks want to time the next entry, but Elon threw a FSD curveball ...

Another sell low buy high

 

[MP3Mike]

It will be a period of change for folks, pooled rides is the only way RT will reduce congestion. Basically the benefits people cite have unfortunate side effects that are very negative. It will be just like the uber drivers constantly circling areas and causing traffic jams. We already know what will happen, how they plan around that I don't know. Pooled rides seems to be the most logical.

Which removes one of the big purported benefits of a RoboTaxi. (Not having to get into a vehicle with a stranger.)

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Gary trimmed, so take that into account - on his talking points

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777642816614584652

Folks want to time the next entry, but Elon threw a FSD curveball ...

I took the liberty of following the last 5 words of his tweet a long time ago.

 

[Krugerrand]

Reuters likewise is not what it once was, yet I immediately can sympathize with their journalistic plight. As I see it, a story comes in; perhaps it is corroborated by more than one source - even if the two sources may be in cahoots - concerning something that puts Tesla in a bad light.

What does the responsible journalist or her editor do? Why, that’s simple; what every single reponsible journailst and publication always do: call up Tesla’s Public Relations office and….

Jumbo shrimp, responsible journalist, honest car salesman.

What a most myopic look at the situation.

• Ignoring the many burning bridges set afire by several journalists over the years. It had started long before Broder, but he certainly lit the road ahead for all that have followed. A fine example how one can be entirely dishonest (lie) and advance your career.
• Ignoring that Tesla has had PR spokesmen in the past and it didn’t make a difference
• Ignoring the blatant attacks (vaporware, Tesla killer anyone) on the company and individuals associated with the company, without any effort to reach out
• Ignoring the onslaught of harassment by contacting employees via LinkedIn and the like, repeatedly, to get information and then purposely misrepresent (lie about) what they said, which led to all sorts of messiness. They even came ‘here’ and were contacting owners and misquoting them. They even quoted posters from ‘here’ without their permission. What was that guys name? Initials MM? Mike or Mathew something? What a leech he was. Do you remember the statics we used to pull together for the individual journalists? We tallied who had written what percentage of positive vs negative articles they’d penned.

I can go on, but I think you get the point.

Additionally, there had always been ways for the journalists to not create the current rift. There are ways for it to be mended and ways forward to work with Tesla, PR department or not. Hint: We reached out to Tesla but they didn’t respond - doesn’t cut it. That bridge crumbled a decade ago.

It’s not Tesla’s fault nobody is smart or savvy enough in the industry to figure out how to develop a relationship with Tesla/Elon. But they sure knew how to and know how to continue to make an enemy of them. Perhaps it’s just that the industry as a whole simply doesn’t care how they get the clicks.

But yeah, let’s blame the victim.

 

[AudubonB]

Jumbo shrimp, responsible journalist, honest car salesman.

What a most myopic look at the situation.

• Ignoring the many burning bridges set afire by several journalists over the years. It had started long before Broder, but he certainly lit the road ahead for all that have followed. A fine example how one can be entirely dishonest (lie) and advance your career.
• Ignoring that Tesla has had PR spokesmen in the past and it didn’t make a difference
• Ignoring the blatant attacks (vaporware, Tesla killer anyone) on the company and individuals associated with the company, without any effort to reach out
• Ignoring the onslaught of harassment by contacting employees via LinkedIn and the like, repeatedly, to get information and then purposely misrepresent (lie about) what they said, which led to all sorts of messiness. They even came ‘here’ and were contacting owners and misquoting them. They even quoted posters from ‘here’ without their permission. What was that guys name? Initials MM? Mike or Mathew something? What a leech he was. Do you remember the statics we used pull together for the individual journalists? We tallied who had written what percentage of positive vs negative articles they’d penned.

I can go on, but I think you get the point.

Additionally, there had always been ways for the journalists to not create the current rift. There are ways for it to be mended and ways forward to work with Tesla, PR department or not. Hint: We reached out to Tesla but they didn’t respond - doesn’t cut it. That bridge crumbled a decade ago.

It’s not Tesla’s fault nobody is smart or savvy enough in the industry to figure out how to develop a relationship with Tesla/Elon. But they sure knew how to and know how to continue to make an enemy of them. Perhaps it’s just that the industry as a whole simply doesn’t care how they get the clicks.

But yeah, let’s blame the victim.

You’re not cherry picking; you’re picking the dust on the eyelash of the mite on the tip of the stem of the most inaccessible cherry on the tree.

My post? It was excoriating use of the word “lying”.

 

[2daMoon]

After yesterday's successful static fire of TSLA another test firing has been scheduled.

A launch date has not been released at this time.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

After yesterday's successful static fire of TSLA another test firing has been scheduled.

A launch date has not been released at this time.

2 weeks maybe?

 

[2daMoon]

You’re not cherry picking; you’re picking the dust on the eyelash of the mite on the tip of the stem of the most inaccessible cherry on the tree.

My post? It was excoriating use of the word “lying”.

I have been left with the impression that "lying" and "Tesla journalism" are synonymous.

Granted, I would eschew being called either a liar or a Tesla journalist with equal fervor.

 

[Musskiah]

Ehhh probably nothing...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777437154014306710

 

[Knightshade]

Ehhh probably nothing...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1777437154014306710

More complete list of all cities listed with openings here-