Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
  • Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
by "upgrade", I mean trading in and getting a newer model, not software upgrades to an existing model. It sounds like you would like to trade in (or sell) and get a new model. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I can buy FSD for my 2018, and that would involve a HW upgrade from 2.5 to 3.

I would prefer to "upgrade" to a 2023 to get all the other features that I'm missing out on.

(ELON if you are reading this, PLEASE give us a Plaid 3).
 
21,529,464 Beetles were made, and sold, and re-sold, and resold over 65 years
I perfectly agree.
If a Model 3 or Y did cost 25k we would see all over the place also in Italy: people would get it despite lack of garages, lack of space in garages, slim streets, bad charging infrastructure.
The idea of getting a *great* value for your money is extremely powerful and supersedes a lot of things. Yes, you maybe prefer a different color or trim or form, but if you save 5 or 10k, everything is relative. We often think of "value" in rigid terms but everything is relative. People are extremely irrational regarding money. Musk is autistic but/so he very much gets this.
 
Respectfully, disagree. I've had a 2013 Model S P85 . . . and it's like a Model S Plaid in name only.

I have currently a 2018 Model 3, and it doesn't have a heatpump, HW3, double pane windows, etc. I'm actively looking to replace it with a Highland Model 3 (PLEASE Elon, give us a Model 3 Plaid - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE).

No tesla car has "double pane windows", the term you need to be using is "laminated windows".

Yes it's 2 pieces of glass but it's not double paned unless there is separation between the layers filled with a gas or mixture of gases (air works, other single gasses can be used).
 
So in Sept 2022 the Model Y was the best selling car in Germany. I expected that to continue but a German poster on reddit said it wouldn't happen again.

He has been right so far, here are the last 2 months

For now the top models in Germany appear to be

  • Volkswagen Golf
  • Tesla Model Y
  • Volkswagen T-Toc
  • Volkswagen Tiguan
So I have some time to wait still for Model Y to take that top spot. I keep thinking it'll be the next reported month. Will it be April or May or June?
 
No tesla car has "double pane windows", the term you need to be using is "laminated windows".

Yes it's 2 pieces of glass but it's not double paned unless there is separation between the layers filled with a gas or mixture of gases (air works, other single gasses can be used).

Whatever the terminology. It's noticeably quieter. It's a feature that further defines the car as substantially different from my 2018. That was my over-arching point.
 
Can the demand curve shift to the right with educational advertising?

Polls indicate 41% of the USA population do not know the name of the vice president.
Nearly all expenditures to shift demand for anything by educational advertising have had negligible effect. During the last decades several studies have been done on that subject, nearly all of the proprietary. A handful have been openly described, mostly ones done by industry groups.

One of the few which had huge recognition was "Got Milk" which was credited for a small upward blip in milk use while continuing the overall drop in milk consumption. The industry loved them so they kept spending the money anyway.

The Super Bowl campaigns gain huge press, but repeatedly watchers remember the ad and forget the sponsor. That is the perilous reality of successful ads.

The unforgettable Volkswagen US ad was revered widely, but did not sell cars, the following for a small sense of humor:

So, no, image ads are nearly always done to satisfy the egos of senior executives. At their best they generate memorable moments, but rarely do anything else with monetary value for anybody other than the advertising industry.

FWIW I, to my chagrin, had a good business in this industry. We, as did nearly everyone, used focus groups to test our products. Bounty, competent focus group facilitators find out the desired answer prior to the group and produce the desired answer virtually always. I say 'virtually' because I'm sure someone, somewhere, failed to do that.

It was a really good focus group that convinced Hewlett Packard there was no future for hand held calculators because slide rules were cheaper, faster and more capable. The focus group was made up of engineers. This one really did happen! Luckily it was just before I landed in the place that did it. Had I been I'd probably have made the mistake. By the time I arrived I already had my Bowmore Brain.

So, seriously, Tesla would only have a rise in expense from image ads, but the advocates would be happy and the ad producers happier still.

We might as well face it though, if enough interested influencers demand it Tesla might just do it. If that happens I shall sell my shares because it will mark the end of financial discipline and rationality at Tesla.
 
Last edited:
I don't think Elon is stubbornly refusing to do advertisement, he just doesn't see the need yet. Starlink does plenty of advertisement, both physically (billboard stuff) and online (Google ads). So no, there doesn't exist a rule that says Elon company can't do ads.

Parking at Costco yesterday, just as I got out of my Model Y, a man and his pre-teen daughter walked by. The girl practically squeeled in delight, and said "Dad! Tesla!". I laughed, and had a brief conversation with the father. He said they're great cars, but pretty expensive. I said to him "Tesla dropped the price on the Model Y by 15 Grand just yesterday! $10K in list price, so it now qualifies for an additional $5K Federal instant rebate."

He then asks "Wow, how much are they now?" So I told him you the base Model Y is less than $55K (Canadian). He didn't even want to know any specs, he just said "Wow, I'll have to look into that". This was the 3rd such conversation I had yesterday alone. Heading out now, will report back later... ;)

Cheers!
 
Respectfully, disagree. I've had a 2013 Model S P85 . . . and it's like a Model S Plaid in name only.

I have currently a 2018 Model 3, and it doesn't have a heatpump, HW3, double pane windows, etc. I'm actively looking to replace it with a Highland Model 3 (PLEASE Elon, give us a Model 3 Plaid - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE).
Exactly! May Model S Plaid looks quite like my P85DL. Apart from that they have little in common, including even interior space. I suspect the people who say they're 'the same' are thinking of exterior appearance, and they are correct about that.

Even correct there are numerous examples of cars that have been highly successful with modest visual changes. From Volkswagen, Citroën, BMW, and Toyota there have been several examples, but this one has been around since 1979, long before Tesla came into existence:
2021_mercedes-benz_g-class_4dr-suv_amg-g-63_fq_oem_1_500.jpg

We might well ignore those comments. They're well meaning. Tesla will change when it's more efficient to do so.
 
Essentially put it this way. My parents only got their smartphone a few years ago. Like 17 years after the IPhone came out. It takes a long time for the masses to inform themselves on new technology. It seems to me that Tesla’s growth is simply outpacing the natural word of mouth/education growth for EV’s and for Tesla’s especially
My daughter years ago when I had a flip phone, "Dad, you don't have to be smart to have a smartphone."
 
I'm just one of those idiots who understands that some kids getting excited at a SpaceX rocket launch has nothing to do with the real damage Elon has also done to the Tesla brand. Those kids aren't buying Tesla's and, news flash, younger people tend to be more "awake" than older, so in 15 years or so of sh;t posting by Elon when they might want to buy a vehicle that launch might be long forgotten. Or not, who knows, maybe by then Elon will have turned things around, but a rocket launch doesn't doesn't erase his other actions.
Thankfully my college age grandkids are the exact opposite of the supposed "awake" you postulate. Then again they're STEM students who must interact with fundamental reality rather than the latest & greatest new social cause to receive peer adulation.
 
I agree and believe some form of informational advertisement would do Tesla well. I talk to many coworkers and reasonably informed adults who have very wrong misconceptions about EV's. Just about every one that mentions the idea of maybe buying an EV some day instantly begins mentioning every other manufacturer. People want to find any reason to avoid even considering purchasing a Tesla. It's very strange, but true for some percentage of the population.
Advertising won't fix that because most don't believe advertising. Advertising does one thing: it creates brand awareness. Most everyone has heard of Tesla, so brand awareness is not really an issue (except for those who live under a rock).
 
One problem with leaving the product lineup relatively unchanged over the years is that there is no compelling reason for existing owners to upgrade to a new car. Today‘s Model Y is basically the same as my 2020 one. Refreshed style and/or more range every few years might get more people to upgrade or attract new buyers.
IMHO, the exact opposite is true.

Part of the reason I keep buying Teslas is because I appreciate a functional design that doesn't change without a reason to change. Also appreciate that they will look fresh for years to come and hold their value better than any design that contains the design whim of a particular year. Tesla's "old designs", SEXY, wildly outperform the newest competitors on almost very point.

Slapping so called design features every few years onto multi decade old designs like the traditional OEMs doesn't do anything for me, it just make them look more dorky.

Given Tesla's sales numbers vs competitors', I'm probably not the only one thinking this ;)
 
Last edited:
Tesla or just EVs doesn't need awareness, it needs conviction. Most Tesla buyers I know are way more informed about the Tesla brand than any other material object they own. That's why people talk your ears off about their tesla. They know about every little leak image on Twitter and what Musk ate for lunch at any given day. It's almost an obsession and many do become shareholders as well.

Not a lot of people look at a Tesla or any EVs and are like "sure I'll give it a try". It's not a 50 dollar item you just try and see if its right to live with. You need to build a certain amount of conviction to convert because everything besides the accelerator and brakes are different.

This is why word of mouth is more important because you need this to build trust in something different. Hearing someone you trust who tested the water and loves it help build conviction for yourself. However if you are skeptical and no one you know owns one, showing them a commercial no matter how cheap or great it is will not change their mind.
 
Did my part. Bought 25 more shares AND ordered a Blue LR Model Y. I wanted the white seats, but that option is still not available here. Fortunately there is an after market solution to that problem.And now begins the excruciating 6 month wait for the vehicle to come from Shanghai to Bangkok. From there I'll drive it down to Phuket.

Cheers to the Longs!
77D74F02-63EE-46F6-A164-C4C1F6FABC7B.jpeg
 
I can buy FSD for my 2018, and that would involve a HW upgrade from 2.5 to 3.

I would prefer to "upgrade" to a 2023 to get all the other features that I'm missing out on.

(ELON if you are reading this, PLEASE give us a Plaid 3).

Sorry, I don't see how this refutes my point that newer models with improved design, range, or features compel people to "upgrade" (ie sell their existing car and buy a new one). You are claiming that you are keeping your 2018 until a compelling refresh comes along. That is my point - more frequent refreshes (design and/or features and/or range) would lead to more existing owners buying newer models.

Personally, I'd trade in my 2020 Model Y for a 400+ mile Model Y in a heartbeat. But until something like that comes along, there's no reason for me to buy a new one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MikeC and philw1776
Tesla or just EVs doesn't need awareness, it needs conviction. Most Tesla buyers I know are way more informed about the Tesla brand than any other material object they own. That's why people talk your ears off about their tesla. They know about every little leak image on Twitter and what Musk ate for lunch at any given day. It's almost an obsession and many do become shareholders as well.

Not a lot of people look at a Tesla or any EVs and are like "sure I'll give it a try". It's not a 50 dollar item you just try and see if its right to live with. You need to build a certain amount of conviction to convert because everything besides the accelerator and brakes are different.

This is why word of mouth is more important because you need this to build trust in something different. Hearing someone you trust who tested the water and loves it help build conviction for yourself. However if you are skeptical and no one you know owns one, showing them a commercial no matter how cheap or great it is will not change their mind.
Very true on Tesla buyers being way more informed. A friend of my wife's purchased a Model Y a while back. She has been considering getting a new one and her husband would get hers. However, she brought up 4 concerns: lack of parking sensors and when Tesla vision would come out, the new "hardware" coming (i.e. HW4), the refresh next year and, of course, chances for more price cuts. In my experience, as a car guy who was always disappointed in how little new car buyers knew about their recent purchases (especially given how much cars cost!), this is stunning to me.
 
Nearly all expenditures to shift demand for anything by educational advertising have had negligible effect. During the last decades several studies have been done on that subject, nearly all of the proprietary. A handful have been openly described, mostly ones done by industry groups.

One of the few which had huge recognition was "Got Milk" which was credited for a small upward blip in milk use while continuing the overall drop in milk consumption. The industry loved them so they kept spending the money anyway.

The Super Bowl campaigns gain huge press, but repeatedly watchers remember the ad and forget the sponsor. That is the perilous reality of successful ads.

The unforgettable Volkswagen US ad was revered widely, but did not sell cars, the following for a small sense of humor:

So, no, image ads are nearly always done to satisfy the egos of senior executives. At their best they generate memorable moments, but rarely do anything else with monetary value for anybody other than the advertising industry.

FWIW I, to my chagrin, had a good business in this industry. We, as did nearly everyone, used focus groups to test our products. Bounty, competent focus group facilitators find out the desired answer prior to the group and produce the desired answer virtually always. I say 'virtually' because I'm sure someone, somewhere, failed to do that.

It was a really good focus group that convinced Hewlett Packard there was no future for hand held calculators because slide rules were cheaper, faster and more capable. The focus group was made up of engineers. This one really did happen! Luckily it was just before I landed in the place that did it. Had I been I'd probably have made the mistake. By the time I arrived I already had my Bowmore Brain.

So, seriously, Tesla would only have a rise in expense from image ads, but the advocates would be happy and the ad producers happier still.

We might as well face it though, if enough interested influencers demand it Tesla might just do it. If that happens I shall sell my shares because it will mark the end of financial discipline and rationality at Tesla.

It has always seemed to me that the people who most appreciate the ad are those who have already purchased the product. Due primarily to how the add strokes their ego and reinforces their wanting external confirmation for having made a good choice.

Ads, then, may be more effective when used as an antidote for "buyer's remorse" than they are for generating new sales.