Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Favguy]

Weekend O.T.

This rich guy wanted to live at a Gas Station.

Texas Gas Station Mansion offered for sale at $8M

That's a pretty tatty collection of large wooden sheds for $8M!!

 

[ZeApelido]

And Premier League footballers. They will lap it up. Once the first footballer turns up at the training ground in a Cybertruck it will be splashed all over the tabloids here in the UK.

Sorry tight jeans are banned from Cybertruck

 

[ZeApelido]

Which one of you here is Nancy?

I think it's @CuriousSunbird

 

[EV forever]

Just the attention and visibility will help Tesla move cars. I wouldn't mind Tesla moving to CCS and their own connector (assuming there is value to keeping the Tesla version at all) but I'm positive that I will like the Tesla stations better than what Papa Biden builds us. Assuming he isn't smart enough to just write Tesla a very large check to build them. Hey, miracles happen...

Instead, he’s asking lawmakers to spend big in two other areas: building a large network of vehicle charging and refueling stations, and increasing subsidies to help lower-income buyers afford the higher price tag of electric models.

Publicly funded charging stations would help new Tesla owners if Tesla were to switch to CCS in North America. This would give Tesla owners more charging choices and also reduce Tesla's cost burden of SC expansion. The feds and other states might also spend on charging networks, so this might be a good move.

Why does Tesla need to switch to CCS? It should be fine to stay with current connector with an adaptor.

 

[Tim S]

More Sandy Monroe, Model 3 Frunk. His positive assessment of the rate of Tesla change.

I'll delete this if somebody tells me it was already posted here with the link.

It's Munro.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

Joe's latest Giga Austin drone video. The first 5 mins is pure gold. An absolute must watch!

Pretty cool that the gigapress is already in!

 

[Beltsbear]

Joe's latest Giga Austin drone video. The first 5 mins is pure gold. An absolute must watch!

Yes. A must watch. Great overlays showing the locations of things. This is quite different then the other factories. GF Shanghai is two smaller factories next to each other, one for the 3, one for the y, sharing some parts. GF Texas appears as one factory but much bigger, with maybe multiple parallel lines running inside for different products.
Everything is bigger in Texas.

 

[MartinAustin]

Why does Tesla need to switch to CCS? It should be fine to stay with current connector with an adaptor.

Isn't it obvious that (some) U.S. taxpayer money should be spent on adding Supercharging sites? 80% of BEVs on the roads the USA are from Tesla. It would seem stupid to be only spending public money on CCS.

 

[MartinAustin]

Was just looking at www.ev-cpo.com as I often do. It would appear that there are some absolutely enormous discounts bring applied to a lot of cars, especially P100D of course

 

[Compton]

Fuel cells for cars have been discussed extensively here and the common sentiment is that they are clearly inferior to electric cars. However, I haven't seen much nearly as much discussion about hydrogen with regard to clean energy storage on an industrial scale.

I read an article today on a local newspaper where the CEOs of two large European energy companies were interviewed and both mentioned hydrogen as a future clean energy storage medium. To my astonishment, large batteries were not even mentioned even though I know that one of the companies experimented with batteries already ~5 years ago.

Ever larger battery projects seems to be popping up around the globe but I haven't noticed articles about large scale hydrogen-based energy storage solutions. Anyone care to give a link to a relevant article or give a quick summary about the viability of hydrogen in clean energy storage in comparison to batteries?

 

[CorneliusXX]

So, that is once again a nice piece of analysis. I mean, you know, apart from the fact that:

1. According to VW themselves, in 2020 they have only delivered 134.000 BEV, the rest of the 212.000 was hybrids. Oh yeah, BTW, they didn't sell 231k "electrified cars", only 212k, according to their own press release.
2. E-up is gone, e-Golf is gone. What we have now are the ID.3 and the ID.4., the latter which is on hold right now because yet another round of SW issues with the patch that was supposed to fix the original problems that have plagued the ID.3 and delayed the ID.4 in the first place.
   • The original plan was to sell 100k ID.3 in the first year of production (2020). According to their official release, they ended up with 56.500 deliveries.
   • According to their head of sales they plan to sell 500k ID.4 until 2025 as in altogether, in total!

Now mind you, they may sell 800k "electrified" cars in 2021 as they may have to really push their hybrids to meet the emission quotas. But let's not pretend that's the same thing.

UPDATE: updated with official numbers as their head of sales quoted some outdated figures on ID.3 sales in the recent German interview.

Thanks for researching - that makes far more sense. I did find the claim surprising and now I see why.

@Mods - are you able to update/delete my OP to reflect that it's incorrect?

 

[lklundin]

Joe's latest Giga Austin drone video. The first 5 mins is pure gold. An absolute must watch!

Yes. On a pedantic note, the name of the Italian builder of the Gigapress is pronounced as 'edra', not spelled out as I-D-R-A as in the video (think of a hydra-ulic press and that in Italian the 'h' is silent).

 

[Christine69420]

Anyone care to give a link to a relevant article or give a quick summary about the viability of hydrogen in clean energy storage in comparison to batteries?

A miniscule amount of hydrogen in a leak from a hydrogen filling station blew out thousands of windows and was detected as an earthquake in Norway a while back. Fortunately the number of HY cars is so low that nobody was filling up or was close enough to get killed:

https://norwaytoday.info/news/hydrogen-station-fire-sandvika/

I don't know how much hydrogen would need to be stored to replace ie. the Moss Landing Megapacks but I would not be happy living nearby.

And then there is a large energy hit when using HY and not electricity and batteries directly:

 

[mrdoubleb]

Thanks for researching - that makes far more sense. I did find the claim surprising and now I see why.

@Mods - are you able to update/delete my OP to reflect that it's incorrect?

I wouldn't delete it. My response is just a couple of posts below your post, people will find it. I think it is helpful to report these type of materials so we can point out the distortions in them.

 

[jbcarioca]

Why does Tesla need to switch to CCS? It should be fine to stay with current connector with an adaptor.

Check out EU Tesla products. The Model 3 came with CCS. All (I think) EU Supercharger stations are now original Tesla connector and CCS. In addition an original Tesla connector/ CCS adapter si sold in EU, although older Models S and X do require some modifications for it to work. Here is the Tesla manual for the adapter:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

Remember that Tesla has long been a member of CharIn, the organization that established CCS, etc.
News
FWIW, the base is J1772 in NA and Mennekes 2 in Europe:
Mennekes International
That means that the NA adapter will be different in NA and is probably the only reason it has not yet been available in NA.

Especially now I think Tesla will make the CCS available in NA also. It will be a trifle complex because the EU pin design is much more flexible than is J1772.

Why? Tesla has already been testing interoperability for other manufacturers in Europe, according to Elon.
There is a high probability of something like that happening on other worldwide markets too. Remember that the proprietary Tesla plug only happened because there was no established high power DC standard when Model S was designed and the first Superchargers were being deployed in September 2012.

Now, with a rapid growing BEV market and more rapidly growing Supercharger supply, it makes perfect sense to begin to generate income from that network. That is 100% in harmony with the Tesla mission and will also give shareholder value. Somebody smarter than am I might be able to estimate the economic value of such an activity. Tesla is already a registered public utility in the EU and UK, although everyone things that is only about existing TE products. This is happening right now, as Elon said. he just was very cryptic...as usual.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Check out EU Tesla products. The Model 3 came with CCS. All (I think) EU Supercharger stations are now original Tesla connector and CCS. In addition an original Tesla connector/ CCS adapter si sold in EU, although older Models S and X do require some modifications for it to work. Here is the Tesla manual for the adapter:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

Remember that Tesla has long been a member of CharIn, the organization that established CCS, etc.
News
FWIW, the base is J1772 in NA and Mennekes 2 in Europe:
Mennekes International
That means that the NA adapter will be different in NA and is probably the only reason it has not yet been available in NA.

Especially now I think Tesla will make the CCS available in NA also. It will be a trifle complex because the EU pin design is much more flexible than is J1772.

Why? Tesla has already been testing interoperability for other manufacturers in Europe, according to Elon.
There is a high probability of something like that happening on other worldwide markets too. Remember that the proprietary Tesla plug only happened because there was no established high power DC standard when Model S was designed and the first Superchargers were being deployed in September 2012.

Now, with a rapid growing BEV market and more rapidly growing Supercharger supply, it makes perfect sense to begin to generate income from that network. That is 100% in harmony with the Tesla mission and will also give shareholder value. Somebody smarter than am I might be able to estimate the economic value of such an activity. Tesla is already a registered public utility in the EU and UK, although everyone things that is only about existing TE products. This is happening right now, as Elon said. he just was very cryptic...as usual.

Type 2 connector (EU, etc) isn't so bad as Type 1 (NA). When Tesla was developing their system, they pretty much had to invent everything from scratch and Type 1 connector was/is poor design. Type 2 connector is less bad, and available by the time they entered EU market, so they hijacked the physical connector to implement (with some signaling) both AC and DC through what was nominally an AC-only connector. This allowed for AC charging to happen with no adapters (vs the J1772 adapter needed in NA). For Type 2 CCS, they just had to add two more pins and some changes to how signaling/electrical connections were handled. Type 1 CCS is a big ugly terrible interface.

I'd rather have Tesla provide Type 1 CCS adapters (or sell them, at least - in other words treated like CHAdeMO) than have Tesla move to Type 1 CCS on vehicles and then have to retrofit charging stations, etc. In that scenario, they still would need to provide adapters for older vehicles as they move towards a CCS only future anyways, but the adapters will be clunkier than in EU - I'd rather they be optional for everyone rather than mandatory for older vehicles, and if we must use adapters anyways it's less cost to Tesla to make them optional for CCS usage versus having to supply them for backwards compatibility AND change out a lot of infrastructure.

And of course the only reason Tesla went to Type 2 CCS in EU anyways (for superchargers at least - it's not impossible they would have implemented a slightly more expensive dual Tesla Type 2 / Type 2 CCS configuration eventually where existing supercharger plugs would still work on the "AC" portion of the Type 2 inlet, rather than only supporting DC on the CCS portion as they do now - doing both needs some extra contactors) was because it was mandated by the law there. Chances of that happening here in NA are pretty slim.

 

[LiveLong&Profit]

Check out EU Tesla products. The Model 3 came with CCS. All (I think) EU Supercharger stations are now original Tesla connector and CCS. In addition an original Tesla connector/ CCS adapter si sold in EU, although older Models S and X do require some modifications for it to work. Here is the Tesla manual for the adapter:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

Remember that Tesla has long been a member of CharIn, the organization that established CCS, etc.
News
FWIW, the base is J1772 in NA and Mennekes 2 in Europe:
Mennekes International
That means that the NA adapter will be different in NA and is probably the only reason it has not yet been available in NA.

Especially now I think Tesla will make the CCS available in NA also. It will be a trifle complex because the EU pin design is much more flexible than is J1772.

Why? Tesla has already been testing interoperability for other manufacturers in Europe, according to Elon.
There is a high probability of something like that happening on other worldwide markets too. Remember that the proprietary Tesla plug only happened because there was no established high power DC standard when Model S was designed and the first Superchargers were being deployed in September 2012.

Now, with a rapid growing BEV market and more rapidly growing Supercharger supply, it makes perfect sense to begin to generate income from that network. That is 100% in harmony with the Tesla mission and will also give shareholder value. Somebody smarter than am I might be able to estimate the economic value of such an activity. Tesla is already a registered public utility in the EU and UK, although everyone things that is only about existing TE products. This is happening right now, as Elon said. he just was very cryptic...as usual.

Generating extra income is for sure nice - even more so when scaling up radically: More money for building more superchargers - Tesla and Tesla-supercharger partnering companies win big.
I believe the even greater advantages are also 1) marketing/hearts&minds and 2) long-term strategy.
Re. 1, think about driving another EV and pull up at a Tesla supercharging station. You are happy, because they almost always work, are well situated and kept clean.
You can't, however, help noticing the ubiquitous Tesla brand on all the chargers.
You also can't help noticing that all the Tesla owners seem happy and carefree, enjoying their big screen games and entertainment - and they leave after 20-30 minutes. Meanwhile, you are stuck for around an hour - and with no games, streaming or other entertainment.
You get a glimpse of the Tesla lifestyle - and you now know what to strive for!

Re 2, it is a hedge against ignorant, biased or captured politicians: It is harder to argue for anti-Tesla laws when Tesla can demonstrate that manufacturers who are willing to partner with Tesla can use the huge and growing SC infrastructure.

 

[Artful Dodger]

[Jan.24.2021] "Construction progress on the Eastern Extension / Tesla Gigafactory 3" | Wu Wa

 

[Ipe]

Check out EU Tesla products. The Model 3 came with CCS. All (I think) EU Supercharger stations are now original Tesla connector and CCS. In addition an original Tesla connector/ CCS adapter si sold in EU, although older Models S and X do require some modifications for it to work. Here is the Tesla manual for the adapter:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/CCS/CCS_Combo_2_Adapter_en.pdf

Remember that Tesla has long been a member of CharIn, the organization that established CCS, etc.
News
FWIW, the base is J1772 in NA and Mennekes 2 in Europe:
Mennekes International
That means that the NA adapter will be different in NA and is probably the only reason it has not yet been available in NA.

Especially now I think Tesla will make the CCS available in NA also. It will be a trifle complex because the EU pin design is much more flexible than is J1772.

Why? Tesla has already been testing interoperability for other manufacturers in Europe, according to Elon.
There is a high probability of something like that happening on other worldwide markets too. Remember that the proprietary Tesla plug only happened because there was no established high power DC standard when Model S was designed and the first Superchargers were being deployed in September 2012.

Now, with a rapid growing BEV market and more rapidly growing Supercharger supply, it makes perfect sense to begin to generate income from that network. That is 100% in harmony with the Tesla mission and will also give shareholder value. Somebody smarter than am I might be able to estimate the economic value of such an activity. Tesla is already a registered public utility in the EU and UK, although everyone things that is only about existing TE products. This is happening right now, as Elon said. he just was very cryptic...as usual.

The newest V3 Superchargers here (EU) only have CCS. You can only charge your S or X by using an adapter. I guess the imminent refresh will have a CCS socket.

 

[Todd Burch]

Take it for what it is, but Bill Wright’s Twitter profile pic has become plaid: