Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Green Pete]

The weekly 420 options (both call and put) at the end of the day were trading at crazy values. 2 min before close, the 420 put still had bid and ask between $5 - $6. I tried to sell a naked put at $5.7 2 min before close but it was not filled and I cancelled it in about 1 min. I examined the time and sales data after market close and the data didn't make any sense. Stock closed at 418.32 but the last trade on the 420 put was $7.80. The intrinsic value should have been $1.80. The last trades on the 420 Calls were in the $5 to $7 range and the intrinsic value should have been 0. Can someone explain this?

The market to buy and sell options ends with the close of the market. But the option is not exercised until - in my experience - Saturday. The highly anticipated S&P announcement potential causes the value to stay high as there is speculation of the actual EoD price could be much higher if S&P announces. Theoretically making 420 a steal

Also probably a bunch of people who want to own shares at 420 for silly sentimental reasons.

 

[Gabos]

I am not a market player by any stretch of the imagination. i decided to test the waters for the first time and buy TSLA stock after the split. Bought shares on 9/2 @489 thinking that the price would shoot thru the roof...
ugh....
this is frustrating

If you wait long enough you'll have double and more, chill

 

[Christine69420]

Looks like they are building a cathedral in Grüneheide:

 

[avoigt]

Today volume: 105 Million

An the SP is up - that's insane

 

[vikings123]

The weekly 420 options (both call and put) at the end of the day were trading at crazy values. 2 min before close, the 420 put still had bid and ask between $5 - $6. I tried to sell a naked put at $5.7 2 min before close but it was not filled and I cancelled it in about 1 min. I examined the time and sales data after market close and the data didn't make any sense. Stock closed at 418.32 but the last trade on the 420 put was $7.80. The intrinsic value should have been $1.80. The last trades on the 420 Calls were in the $5 to $7 range and the intrinsic value should have been 0. Can someone explain this?

I agree it did not make sense. I noticed the same with the 410 put. They were trading at 2-3$ a minute before close. I know this because I had sold a put and wanted to close it for .05 but it did not go through.

 

[EVortex]

I am not a market player by any stretch of the imagination. i decided to test the waters for the first time and buy TSLA stock after the split. Bought shares on 9/2 @489 thinking that the price would shoot thru the roof...
ugh....
this is frustrating

This SP moves around a lot. Lots of good things happening on the horizon, including one in maybe about 45 minutes.

 

[lafrisbee]

I am not a market player by any stretch of the imagination. i decided to test the waters for the first time and buy TSLA stock after the split. Bought shares on 9/2 @489 thinking that the price would shoot thru the roof...
ugh....
this is frustrating

you ain't seen *sugar*.
I bought January 30 of this year. A week later the stock went from my purchase price of $600 to $900. And that was while I was watching it...and within a few minutes it was back down in the low $700 range (all numbers estimated, but if you were there you remember.) Imagine me. I was brand spanking new to buying my own stocks.

 

[Cherry Wine]

I agree it did not make sense. I noticed the same with the 410 put. They were trading at 2-3$ a minute before close. I know this because I had sold a put and wanted to close it for .05 but it did not go through.

Crazy high IV?

 

[generalenthu]

I am not a market player by any stretch of the imagination. i decided to test the waters for the first time and buy TSLA stock after the split. Bought shares on 9/2 @489 thinking that the price would shoot thru the roof...
ugh....
this is frustrating

The market to buy and sell options ends with the close of the market. But the option is not exercised until - in my experience - Saturday. The highly anticipated S&P announcement potential causes the value to stay high as there is speculation of the actual EoD price could be much higher if S&P announces. Theoretically making 420 a steal

I checked on this earlier this week.

The call or put exercise has to happen at the exchange by 530 pm New York time. The brokers have to aggregate and send the instructions to the exchange and they have a 430 pm Cutoff.

So unless you're a big fish who can directly tell the exchange to exercise, these options are worthless to you. And this is very easy money for the ones with direct exchange access.

There is information floating around the interwebs that the exercise can happen on Saturday. This is outdated info and is wrong despite it repetition. It used to be the case, but no longer.

Also this is another reason why there was no pinning today. The market makers and the other big guys were gobbling up the straddles. Even something like the 430 calls were trading pretty high in the last minute and they should have been worthless normally.

 

[ggr]

Expect the S&P 500 Announcement press release at exactly 5:15 PM EDT today:

View attachment 584436

https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/d...34253624lopeleaUntFtr.pdf?force_download=true

Drumroll, please:

If Tesla gets added, I'm going to quote that part of it with a link to the rest since it is a non-copyrighted press release. If Tesla does not get added, I'm going to play Fortnite and kill some avatars!

You can link to anything, copyrighted or not; what you can't do is quote the entire text of something copyrighted behind a paywall or a Bloomberg terminal. So you can go ahead and quote the text, just like another 29 people will within 10 minutes plus or minus.

 

[pz1975]

I’ve written about this before, but an expird bought option can be exercised up to 45-75 minutes after close on Fridays (time depending on the broker). This is true even if the option is OTM (out of the money). So if you own an expired $420 call today and the SP goes to $450, you can definitely call your broker and exercise it before their cutoff time (assuming your broker allows this at all - mine does). You can even choose to exercise it if you want even if it isn’t in the money (like if the SP is $415).

I’ve had this happen to me in the reverse. I had a sold call exercised on me even though the SP after hours never went as high as the strike price.

 

[Gabos]

Guys, dont sweat it if TSLA doesn't get announced tonight even if anyone else gets in the index. I have found instances as recent as 09/2019 of companies being added only days apart and around the quarterly rebalancing.
There might be similar occasions further in the past as I've not searched further after finding this

The rebalancing took place 23 Sept 19, but I haven't found the rebalance announcemnt, just the three separate companies (along with others) on Sept 17, 20 and 26

 

[Cherry Wine]

I’ve written about this before, but an expird bought option can be exercised up to 45-75 minutes after close on Fridays (time depending on the broker). This is true even if the option is OTM (out of the money). So if you own an expired $420 call today and the SP goes to $450, you can definitely call your broker and exercise it before their cutoff time (assuming your broker allows this at all - mine does). You can even choose to exercise it if you want even if it isn’t in the money (like if the SP is $415).

I’ve had this happen to me in the reverse. I had a sold call exercised on me even though the SP after hours never went as high as the strike price.

More reason to just close those suckers out before expiry.

 

[PokerFJÆS]

Seems to imply a white knight with billions of dollars of "firepower".
Happy 420 all!

 

[vikings123]

I checked on this earlier this week.

The call or put exercise has to happen at the exchange by 530 pm New York time. The brokers have to aggregate and send the instructions to the exchange and they have a 430 pm Cutoff.

So unless you're a big fish who can directly tell the exchange to exercise, these options are worthless to you. And this is very easy money for the ones with direct exchange access.

There is information floating around the interwebs that the exercise can happen on Saturday. This is outdated info and is wrong despite it repetition. It used to be the case, but no longer.

Also this is another reason why there was no pinning today. The market makers and the other big guys were gobbling up the straddles. Even something like the 430 calls were trading pretty high in the last minute and they should have been worthless normally.

The 410 put that I sold also should have been worthless but it was trading for 3$. Are brokers and market makers not sure what will happen AH? I’m fine with getting shares assigned but my understanding is that options exercise happens based on regular hours closing price.

 

[Singuy]

The 410 put that I sold also should have been worthless but it was trading for 3$. Are brokers and market makers not sure what will happen AH? I’m fine with getting shares assigned but my understanding is that options exercise happens based on regular hours closing price.

White knight called MM who came to the rescue for once

 

[MikeC]

I checked on this earlier this week.

The call or put exercise has to happen at the exchange by 530 pm New York time. The brokers have to aggregate and send the instructions to the exchange and they have a 430 pm Cutoff.

So unless you're a big fish who can directly tell the exchange to exercise, these options are worthless to you. And this is very easy money for the ones with direct exchange access.

There is information floating around the interwebs that the exercise can happen on Saturday. This is outdated info and is wrong despite it repetition. It used to be the case, but no longer.

Also this is another reason why there was no pinning today. The market makers and the other big guys were gobbling up the straddles. Even something like the 430 calls were trading pretty high in the last minute and they should have been worthless normally.

Thanks for this. I had sold 436s expiring today but couldn’t even buy them back for $0.50 each. I was scared about the 15 minutes between 5:15 (S&P announcement) and 5:30, but it sounds like they won’t really have the chance to exercise them, hopefully.

 

[Green Pete]

I checked on this earlier this week.

The call or put exercise has to happen at the exchange by 530 pm New York time. The brokers have to aggregate and send the instructions to the exchange and they have a 430 pm Cutoff.

So unless you're a big fish who can directly tell the exchange to exercise, these options are worthless to you. And this is very easy money for the ones with direct exchange access.

There is information floating around the interwebs that the exercise can happen on Saturday. This is outdated info and is wrong despite it repetition. It used to be the case, but no longer.

Also this is another reason why there was no pinning today. The market makers and the other big guys were gobbling up the straddles. Even something like the 430 calls were trading pretty high in the last minute and they should have been worthless normally.

I speak from personal experience A LA March of this year that they exercised early in the morning on Saturday.

This is despite me spending 3 hours on the phone immediately after closing with my broker

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

View attachment 584451
Seems to imply a white knight with billions of dollars of "firepower".
Happy 420 all!

His tweet seems to imply that Tesla went up a lot while the market absolutely tanked

The MM's were definitely on our side today and the stock showed a lot of strength, but Tesla only ended up 2.7% while the NASDAQ was only down 1%. His tweet implies the NASDAQ ended the day down 5%

 

[Right_Said_Fred]

I have a request... can we please start moderating ourselves a little more? It is obviously too much work for the moderators. There are way too many "joke" posts and other nonsense to keep up with. Even the informational posts often get repeated several times because most of us can't catch up to the latest post before posting.

So far, I have only "ignored" people who repeatedly post FUD or are very annoying. For my own sanity, I may have to start ignoring people just because they post too much.

Post of the day.

I was away for a few hours and had to wade through pages and pages of 420 and 420.69 nonsense and jokes, and other trivia. Some posters don’t seem to have an off button. I don’t want to be the party pooper all the time, but please show some self restraint.