Tesla Supercharger network

[hans]

Huh? CSP usually uses much more water than PV since they are essentially steam turbines. They have the exact same dust issues as PV panels do. Many CSP projects in California have switched to PV at least in part because of water supply issues. The biggest benefit of CSP over PV is that adding storage is relatively inexpensive allowing the plant to shift production up to 8 hours.

You are correct about the water use. I found this quote about the Desertec project (source Solar Energy From the Sahara Desert Could Power the World - But Will It? | CleanTechnica )

“Due to the dusty conditions, we are witnessing about 2% degradation every day in performance, so we need to clean them daily. We use about 39 cubic meters [10,300 gallons] of demineralized water each day for cleaning across the whole site.”

The Solar Sahara idea appears to be an old one going back to 1913 (Frank Shuman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and it still has some challenges to work out. Hope they get it done someday soon though.

Anyway, back to the Supercharger network. Cover the Tesla factory and the parking lots with PV panels and avoid the green washing of the supercharger sites with the tiny solar shades.

 

[JRP3]

I wonder if it would be effective to clean the dust off the panels with compressed air most of the time instead of water? Solar powered compressor of course.

 

[callmesam]

But then you would need one full battery for each expected supercharge during peak hours. That would be quite a stack of batteries - you could easily require 30 85-kWh packs worth of storage.

There are some rumors that Superchargers have 1MW of battery storage available for TOU.

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

There are some rumors that Superchargers have 1MW of battery storage available for TOU.

A megawatt (MW) is a unit of power, meaning a certain amount of energy delivered in a certain amount of time. There's no such thing as "1MW of battery storage" because MW is not a measure of capacity. It would need to be 1 MWh (1 megawatt-hour, or the ability to delivery 1 MW of power for 1 hour, or 100 KW for 10 hours, or something... you get the point).

I would think this is unlikely given today's technology and costs. The 85 KWh battery in the car costs about $40,000 because lithium-ion batteries currently cost about $450-$500 per 1 KWh of capacity. A 1 MWh battery would cost half a million dollars today. Maybe there are other, cheaper battery technologies that are more appropriate, and I could be wrong... it just doesn't seem that the numbers would work from what I know, or think I know.

Then again, always remember the old saying: "It's not what we know or don't know that gets us in trouble... but the things we 'know for sure' that just ain't so." :-D

 

[waidy]

I would think this is unlikely given today's technology and costs. The 85 KWh battery in the car costs about $40,000 because lithium-ion batteries currently cost about $450-$500 per 1 KWh of capacity. A 1 MWh battery would cost half a million dollars today. Maybe there are other, cheaper battery technologies that are more appropriate, and I could be wrong... it just doesn't seem that the numbers would work from what I know, or think I know.

I think lead acid battery technology would be better to use in this application. It is less expensive but it weight a lot. Since this is for energy storage application (not for mobility), the weight would not be matter.

 

[callmesam]

A megawatt (MW) is a unit of power, meaning a certain amount of energy delivered in a certain amount of time. There's no such thing as "1MW of battery storage" because MW is not a measure of capacity. It would need to be 1 MWh (1 megawatt-hour, or the ability to delivery 1 MW of power for 1 hour, or 100 KW for 10 hours, or something... you get the point).

I would think this is unlikely given today's technology and costs. The 85 KWh battery in the car costs about $40,000 because lithium-ion batteries currently cost about $450-$500 per 1 KWh of capacity. A 1 MWh battery would cost half a million dollars today. Maybe there are other, cheaper battery technologies that are more appropriate, and I could be wrong... it just doesn't seem that the numbers would work from what I know, or think I know.

Then again, always remember the old saying: "It's not what we know or don't know that gets us in trouble... but the things we 'know for sure' that just ain't so." :-D

You are right. Should have written it 1000kWh battery pack.


The numbers I've seen are $200/kwh (cell level not pack level) which would put the battery cost of a Supercharger at $200,000+$50,000 for hardware/installation = $250,000/Supercharger.

 

[Dave EV]

You are right. Should have written it 1000kWh battery pack.

Grid storage is rated both in power (kW) and energy (kWh) - and the power rating is often quoted over the energy rating. Saying that 1 MW grid storage battery is being planned is useful, but only half of the picture - how long can that storage deliver 1 MW before needing to be recharged?

1 MWh is enough energy for about 20 SuperCharges assuming each SuperCharge uses about 50 kWh.
1 MW is enough power to charge about 8 Model Ss at 120 kW without having to draw from the grid.

A Tesla pack that held 1 MWh could easily deliver 1 MW - that's only a 1C discharge rate. It would be very interesting to see what the actual power/energy specs of any grid storage that Tesla uses.

 

[jcstp]

with this 43% efficient solarpannel, how many pannels would you need?
KW21SolarServer

 

[hans]

with this 43% efficient solarpannel, how many pannels would you need?
KW21SolarServer

The referred article is announcing a cell, not a panel.

 

[JRP3]

I would think this is unlikely given today's technology and costs. The 85 KWh battery in the car costs about $40,000 because lithium-ion batteries currently cost about $450-$500 per 1 KWh of capacity.

We know that Tesla is pricing the difference between the 60 and 85 Model S at $400 per kwh at the retail level so even if you assume all the cost differences are related only to the battery their actual production costs have to be much lower.

 

[Clprenz]

I got in contact with the Town of Normal, since I live hear. I will be making a short film on the construction and impact the station will have soon. They will let me know when Tesla plans to start construction. As will Alexis Georgeson, head of communications at Tesla, who is being really great about all my ideas for creating video content for Tesla. I will post photos, but it doesn't look like the station will be built before the announcement so I won't have any inside news for long.

 

[sp4rk]

I got in contact with the Town of Normal, since I live hear. I will be making a short film on the construction and impact the station will have soon. They will let me know when Tesla plans to start construction. As will Alexis Georgeson, head of communications at Tesla, who is being really great about all my ideas for creating video content for Tesla. I will post photos, but it doesn't look like the station will be built before the announcement so I won't have any inside news for long.

Sorry to be spelling police but OUCH! My eyes!

Go for it ... look forward to seeing the video. Any idea of date for groundbreaking?

 

[ChrisC]

MEDIA ADVISORY | TESLA MOTORS SUPERCHARGER ANNOUNCEMENT | Press Releases | Tesla Motors

PALO ALTO, Calif.-- Tesla Motors, Inc. will hold a conference call on May 30, 2013 at 10:30 AM Pacific Time (1:30 PM Eastern Time) for members of the media, to make an announcement about the Tesla Supercharger Network. Following remarks from Elon Musk, Tesla Motors co-founder and CEO, media is invited to participate in a question and answer session.

What: Tesla Motors, Inc. Supercharger Announcement
When: Thursday, May 30, 2013
Time: 10:30 AM Pacific Time / 1:30 PM Eastern Time
Press Release will be available at: Press Center | Tesla Motors
Webcast: ir.teslamotors.com (live and replay)
Live Call: (877) 312-5519 / (760) 666-3771 (International)

Approximately two hours after the call, a digital recording of the Q&A session will be available for a period of two weeks following the date of the call. To access the recording, please dial in to one of the following numbers using the conference ID shown.

Replay Dial-In: (855) 859-2056 Conference ID: 75424052
International Replay Dial-In #: (404) 537-3406 Conference ID: 75424052

The webcast will also be archived on the company's website for a period of one year following the date of the call.

 

[bollar]

I wonder if it would be effective to clean the dust off the panels with compressed air most of the time instead of water? Solar powered compressor of course.

My guess would be no. I would be concerned about the blast embedding contaminants into the paint. Also, this kind of debris tends to be sticky and I don't find that compressed air does a great job in that scenario. But, hey, not too much harm in trying it...

 

[dsm363]

From one of the live blogs of the D11 event:


Musk: "There's going to be a dramatic acceleration of the supercharging next work. By the end of next month, we'll triple the supercharger coverage area. There's a map that'll go live tomorrow, obviously."

 

[callmesam]

A more detailed map will go out tomorrow, Musk says. “You’ll be able to drive all the way from LA to New York using the Supercharger network,” he says. I believe the target for that announcement was by next year.

 

[Robbo]

11:09 PM
Musk: "We're improving the density of superchargers in well-traveled routes, as well as the overall coverage area."

 

[callmesam]

From one of the live blogs of the D11 event:


Musk: "There's going to be a dramatic acceleration of the supercharging next work. By the end of next month, we'll triple the supercharger coverage area. There's a map that'll go live tomorrow, obviously."

Are you listening/watching somewhere?

 

[Robbo]

Are you listening/watching somewhere?

Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla Motors and SpaceX, live at D11

 

[callmesam]

Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla Motors and SpaceX, live at D11

Much better than the gigom liveblog. Thanks.